Funny Book Forensics 433 Byrning Superboy

[00:00:05] Speaker A: Well, it's true. [00:00:07] Speaker B: What's true? [00:00:09] Speaker A: That hanging out and being kidnapped allegedly, allegedly by a future client potentially of night legal pllc1 squasho man. Squash a man Allegedly has been participating in biological warfare against you. [00:00:31] Speaker B: Yeah, I got super sick. [00:00:35] Speaker A: Is that. Are you directly blaming. [00:00:38] Speaker B: All right. No. [00:00:38] Speaker A: Squatch a man. Or are you. [00:00:41] Speaker B: Oh, no, I'm just stating a fact that I got super sick. [00:00:45] Speaker A: Oh. So Greg has been. That's why we've been gone for two weeks. Yeah, well, I mean, Greg suggested bringing in Travis to work on a legion of superheroes book. And I said. He. He suggested this? He was so sick. He suggested this three times. I said. And I was like, this would not be effective. Why not? [00:01:02] Speaker B: You didn't want to talk to Travis about legion of superheroes. [00:01:07] Speaker A: Travis doesn't know anything about the legion superhero, and he willfully chooses to know nothing about the lead superhero. [00:01:13] Speaker B: You could have educated him. [00:01:15] Speaker A: No. No. [00:01:17] Speaker B: You squandered an opportunity of education, Dan. [00:01:19] Speaker A: A dime. You would have made fun of me for 35 minutes, and now we got Ma. [00:01:23] Speaker B: You could have. And then you could have taken the. The remainder time, the 25 minutes that you had, and you could have. You could have continued to. To educate and. And implement greatness of the legion of superheroes and Superman because these are the greatest heroes of them all. Or the. The greatest hero of them. You know what I'm trying to say, Dan? You could have been. [00:01:49] Speaker A: Happened. [00:01:50] Speaker B: You could have had a great time. [00:01:51] Speaker A: He's too resistant. [00:01:53] Speaker B: He's too resistant. [00:01:56] Speaker A: He's. Yeah, this, this, this. This character that was created here I'm about to show you so nobody else can see but you. [00:02:06] Speaker B: Oh, yes. [00:02:07] Speaker A: This character created in 1985, does he not look like a 90s video game character? [00:02:12] Speaker B: He does. [00:02:14] Speaker A: Okay. I'm just. Just saying they took. [00:02:16] Speaker B: They took all these. That was the inspiration of all the 90s video games characters, all the fighting characters that we'd. We'd ever seen. [00:02:26] Speaker A: And that was. Well, you know, that's the second karate kid. [00:02:30] Speaker B: You know, that's what makes so much sense. [00:02:33] Speaker A: Then he took on the mantle of a person he'd never met before. [00:02:39] Speaker B: I love it. I love. That's. Yeah, that's what makes the most sense. Do you know what would have been even better is if they had a Danny chase like person, too. No. [00:02:50] Speaker A: No. [00:02:50] Speaker B: Yes. Well, you know that. [00:02:52] Speaker A: Well, that's on that note, Dan. [00:02:54] Speaker B: If I could do anything, I'm gonna put it out there. I say it all the time. People always ask, what would I write? And just for You. If I could, if somebody out there wants to task me with just coming up with new Danny Chase storylines, I would do it just to please you, Dan, one of my nearest and dearest bestest friends. I would. I would do that just for you. Like a grown up, newly formed Danny Chase who got a chance to. To meet those expectations that were cut short in his previous former self. [00:03:34] Speaker A: The whole thing about having a Danny Chase character is you had me growing up. [00:03:42] Speaker B: Yes. So. And now I know I can. I can take your stories and put them into. [00:03:49] Speaker A: You didn't need. You didn't need a short redheaded. [00:03:53] Speaker B: No, I know. That's why I could put them into these comic book. I could take all your stories and now, now, now put them into the new comics and it's like, oh, Danny Chase goes to Las Vegas. [00:04:10] Speaker A: It would be the worst comic. He's dead. [00:04:13] Speaker B: No, no, he's alive. [00:04:15] Speaker A: He's like a. You know, he's. [00:04:16] Speaker B: He's alive in this time thing or something in this time stream. [00:04:20] Speaker A: There is no that. Well, anyway, this is funny book forensics. We are not talking about the new Teen Titans. We are supposed to be talking about Legion of superheroes number 38. Maybe Greg has forgotten. [00:04:32] Speaker B: Oh, I'm sorry. [00:04:33] Speaker A: I was. Because it's been so long. [00:04:35] Speaker B: This is what you could have had [00:04:36] Speaker A: with Travis when we. When we last met, we discussed some other issues. Yes, they're over here. Yes, two. Well, several. Like a month ago, we discussed Legion of superheroes number 37. There's Superboy. And then we discussed what if. What if Superboy, John Byrne issues this Superman issue that he completely just takes the COVID from a Fantastic Four issue and redoes it. I think it's fantastic. We had this Action Comics issue here. Yeah. Yes. So that Action 591 and Superman number eight, after they had made Superman and then changed adventures to Superman. And I will tell you, I just reorganized all my comic books this weekend and fuck them. I am not putting Adventures of Superman under a. [00:05:27] Speaker B: Why not? [00:05:27] Speaker A: Because it's like Superman 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, you know, 500. And then Adventures of Superman 5, 30 through 200 issues. And then it goes back to Superman and he's like, I'm not putting Adventures under A. No, those are just all going to go under Superman Volume 1, because that's stupid. And this can go under Superman volume Bl. [00:05:50] Speaker B: That's not alphabetized. [00:05:52] Speaker A: Yeah, I know. [00:05:53] Speaker B: I don't like it. People, if you have a problem, just like I do, let Dan know also. [00:06:00] Speaker A: No, they're going to agree with me on this, you should message him and [00:06:03] Speaker B: let him know that you. [00:06:04] Speaker A: Also stupid. It's stupid. Also in the Legion of Superheroes book with Mark Wade where they change it for like 10 issues to Supergirl in the Legion and then change it back to Legion. No, those are all going to go sequentially under Legion, you know, Justice League. Wahaha. Justice League. I'm not going to file Justice League, Justice League International and Justice League all like, if they're sequential, they're going to go together. Now I say that and then that's not completely true because I did notice that Superboy and then Superboy and the Legion of Superheroes and then Legion of Superheroes were all separate. [00:06:46] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:06:47] Speaker A: Even though those are sequential. So I guess if the book is sequential, but it completely changes its theme. Like, then it. Then it can, then it can be separate. Like, like if you. If you go from like Super Boy to Superboy, playing with the Legion of Superheroes to Legion of Superheroes, at least the Legion of Superheroes ones probably should go by themselves, even though those are sequential. But if the book is literally the same thing and you go change the name. Oh yeah. It was the ones I found too, because I was selling those at the store and then I brought those back. So somebody had pilfered through the. The. The wonderful Batman and Robin books. [00:07:28] Speaker B: Oh yeah. [00:07:29] Speaker A: Written by our favorite non binary creator, the. Yes. Somebody had pilfered the expensive ones out of there, but I'm looking at those. And later, I don't remember if it was that one or was the Tomasi series afterwards with the same title, but it was like Batman and Robin, Batman and Robin, Bat. And then they get to an issue and like Robin's missing. So it's like Batman and Catwoman, Batman and this bat. And it's like, no, no, I'm not going to move those around the drawers. [00:08:01] Speaker B: You should, because it's no longer Batman and Robin, it's Batman and Catwoman. And what if it turns into Batman and Joker and Batman and Penguin? [00:08:08] Speaker A: It did do all of those things. [00:08:10] Speaker B: Yeah, that's what I'm saying. You got a stupid Batman and King Tut. [00:08:15] Speaker A: That's how I lose the Batman and King Tut. I would. That's the series you should write. You should pitch that. [00:08:20] Speaker B: That would be. H. Would. I would. Oh, that'd be. That'd be great. [00:08:24] Speaker A: I would, I would. I would happily co author that with you and do all the research. [00:08:29] Speaker B: We see if. If you're not willing to give me a Danny Chase just straight up series And Batman and King Tut. [00:08:38] Speaker A: Yeah, we will be. I will be going up to Greg's castle, and we will be watching all of his. Because he has them on dvd. So we will be watching. [00:08:46] Speaker B: Yes. [00:08:47] Speaker A: All of the King Ted episodes from the Batman 66 series. [00:08:51] Speaker B: I. I remember all of them. I remember when. When I first moved to Washington, our. My neighbor at the. Like, in our. In my neighborhood, I would just always go over to their house because we hadn't gotten, like. Because we lived out in the middle of that nowhere area out there. So you had to, like, wait till the company, like, hooked up. Yeah. Hooked up your cable or whatever to, you know, so we had no. There was no way to get TV unless you had an antenna. And my dad was like, well, we're not putting the antenna up on this house because it's like, you know, you just don't want to do it anyways. It's like this whole thing because it was at that time when you could use the antenna. But the neighbor at the bottom of the hill, her parents were all set up. Everything was fantastic. I just, like, go down there right after school, watch Batman. And it was a thing. And I remember they moved away. And I'm sitting there one day, and I'm like, this car pulls up, and it was the neighbor, like, grown up. We're like, now in high school. And she was like, hey, do you remember coming over to my house? I used to live over there. And we just watch Batman all the time. And I was like, yeah. She goes, guess what time it is? Time to watch Batman. I was like, holy shit. Yep. [00:10:06] Speaker A: I was like, on channel. Channel 11. KSTW. [00:10:09] Speaker B: Yep. [00:10:10] Speaker A: It's same bad time, same bad channel. The. It was fantastic. It was on every day all the [00:10:19] Speaker B: way until it was till probably until they stopped airing in, like, the late 90s. Because I watched, like, that was. [00:10:30] Speaker A: Well, and I would watch it because we did have an antenna. And my father said, you. You do not pay for television. We will not even. When cable finally came to Rockstad Lane, which later became 117th Avenue Court east, because the fire department couldn't find Rockstad Lane, named after the developer, because the streets went 116, Rockstad Lane, 118. Which makes, you know, total sense. And so anyway, they changed the name of the street later on, so that was fun. It was also. We got to change all of our addresses and stuff. Yeah, it was good. But, yes, my Rob had cable, but we. We did not for a long time. [00:11:18] Speaker B: Oh, yeah. No, I don't think. [00:11:19] Speaker A: Yeah, we did we. Did you do not pay. It did go down our street. [00:11:23] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:11:23] Speaker A: On all South Hill. But it did not. Well, anyway, maybe that's why I love comic books so much. [00:11:28] Speaker B: Yes. Because comics. Yeah. [00:11:31] Speaker A: Legion of superheroes number 38. I only had to get my dad to drive 30 minutes to go buy this. [00:11:36] Speaker B: To go buy this one. It's a cool looking cover. [00:11:40] Speaker A: This is a cool looking cover. [00:11:41] Speaker B: It's pretty epic. [00:11:42] Speaker A: It's also the conclusion of the story, as you will recall. [00:11:45] Speaker B: I'm gonna say. Yeah, well, when I saw this cover, when I, when I opened this up to take a look at it, I was like, is this the right book? Because this doesn't look like it's in the right timeline of comics. [00:11:59] Speaker A: It doesn't. [00:12:00] Speaker B: It, it doesn't look like a comic of this era. [00:12:04] Speaker A: Well, we went to a Steve Lytle cover. There you go. Yeah, there's a comic book of the era completely. [00:12:11] Speaker B: But this does not look like this type of this era's comic. [00:12:14] Speaker A: No, it doesn't. [00:12:15] Speaker B: I thought this was like a. This is like, this is what, 80s? [00:12:19] Speaker A: 87. 87, yes. [00:12:22] Speaker B: I thought this was 90 something. [00:12:27] Speaker A: Well, it looks almost Darwin cook like, doesn't it? [00:12:30] Speaker B: It does it, yeah. [00:12:32] Speaker A: But that is not who it. Who did it. Yes. So we're gonna play guess the COVID But I will say before we play [00:12:38] Speaker B: guess the COVID artist, Guess the COVID [00:12:42] Speaker A: We will put it in a timeframe for. So this is 1987. This is DC Comics. I'm just gonna help you out. We're coming off of a storyline where we had a Steve Lytle cover with Reg Laroque art inside. And we were doing. Comparing the art before to see who did it better. Then we got John Byrne art here. We've got Burn with. Let's see, this is Byrne with Kiesel. Right? This one was. And this one was John Byrne with. I forget who the anchor was because it's not on the COVID Oh, that, [00:13:13] Speaker B: that one with the inside. [00:13:14] Speaker A: Apparently Carl had some, Carl had some pull. [00:13:17] Speaker B: That one was okay. I liked it because it was a cool homage. But then the, the, the other, the other one was. That was that. Yeah, that one. I, I like the, the interior better. [00:13:29] Speaker A: Yeah, I like, I don't know. I like the COVID I mean, the COVID is good. [00:13:32] Speaker B: It's just, I mean, you know. [00:13:33] Speaker A: Well, it's just it. Well, again, the thing that nobody wants [00:13:37] Speaker B: to see Superman, Superboy and Superman fighting. [00:13:41] Speaker A: Well, the other thing about these covers is just. It's tiresome to continually see John Byrne draw the Legion characters as Fantastic Four or X Men characters. Right? [00:13:50] Speaker B: I know, but it looks neat. So it's. [00:13:53] Speaker A: It does not. So it's. And, and as we left off opinion, we left off Superman had met Superboy. He tells us he's never been Superboy. He flies away back to his time. Superboy and the legion of superheroes figure out that the evil Time Trapper has been manipulating them for years and sending them into a pocket universe. And now they are flying into the future to go fight the Time Trapper together to defeat him once and for all. [00:14:25] Speaker B: Yeah. Get him. [00:14:26] Speaker A: And if you're following, if you're following DC Comics right now, this is not Doomsday. [00:14:31] Speaker B: Yeah. Totally different guy. [00:14:33] Speaker A: In fact, the Time Trapper has been many characters throughout time. We'll highlight a couple of them at the end of the episode. But for now, we've got a book here called Greatest Hero of Them All. So, okay, this is 1987 DC Comics. Who is the artist of this cover? [00:15:00] Speaker B: It's the greatest hero of them all. [00:15:03] Speaker A: Yeah. So, yeah, no guesses at all. Like, so this is 1987, not Darwin Cook. Comedy is not Darwin Cook. I've already given you that. [00:15:12] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah, [00:15:16] Speaker A: I'll give you. Let's see. So I'll give you a hint. Okay, give me. Give you a hint. This person is known for both superhero and fantasy comics, but I would say that this person maybe has a bigger name drawing, say some more mature themed comics in the 90s as well as superhero comics. That is your total hint. [00:15:49] Speaker B: Mature themed. So I'm thinking somebody that draws heavy metal stuff. [00:15:59] Speaker A: So it. I will tell you it is not an English artist. [00:16:03] Speaker B: Okay, okay. [00:16:05] Speaker A: Or was not. Let me rephrase that. I'm going to back off on that. I don't know. I don't think they are an English artist. They are not. I was correct. And they're. So they weren't. They weren't part of the British Invasion. Yeah. So it was not a British Invasion artist. So this wasn't the typical people that were working with like Keith Giffen. [00:16:23] Speaker B: Okay. I. I don't know. I. I've got nothing except for. It's a very interesting use of negative space. [00:16:34] Speaker A: Yeah. They. I will give you. I will give you a hint. [00:16:39] Speaker B: Okay, give me a hint. [00:16:42] Speaker A: I will give you a hint. [00:16:43] Speaker B: Another hint. Just the art. Not a lot of D.C. the artist. [00:16:48] Speaker A: It's hard. It's hard because there's not a lot of D.C. they drew off of. [00:16:52] Speaker B: Okay. [00:16:54] Speaker A: So that should tell you. They drew for other companies at times. [00:17:00] Speaker B: And it was more mature stuff. [00:17:04] Speaker A: Well, I would say, like, see, there's lots. There is superhero stuff, but I would say fanciful superhero stuff, super fantasy. [00:17:18] Speaker B: It'd be it, it would be crazy. They, they. What they're known for is doing album covers. [00:17:24] Speaker A: Well, this says, this says, this says what they're known for. He. It says they continue to work for both Marvel and dc. Okay. On titles like Spider Woman, Batman, Wonder Woman and the Question. At your. And they cite. And they cite Kurt Swan and Jack Kirby as major influences, which is interesting because I can't think of two art styles that are totally different. [00:17:53] Speaker B: Different and don't look like this. Yes. I, I, I, I don't know. I'm pulling a gooseig. [00:18:03] Speaker A: Well, yeah, this is. Well, this was a tough one. This cover was done by Bill Sievich. [00:18:13] Speaker B: Okay. I would not have guessed that because this does not look like what I am. And now I'm I Did he not, did he Honestly, in his bio, did [00:18:30] Speaker A: he, [00:18:33] Speaker B: did he do album covers? Because I want to say he did album covers. [00:18:39] Speaker A: I don't know if Bill Sinkevich did album covers. I would assume Bill Sinkevich has done all sorts of things. So is something we can look up. Obviously, it's really interesting when we look things up about people on the podcast. [00:18:50] Speaker B: I am, I'm looking it up because [00:18:52] Speaker A: I want to know. It does say he did lots of album covers. Yes. [00:18:57] Speaker B: Shut up. Are you serious? [00:19:00] Speaker A: Yeah, I think so. Bill. Well, I'm on his page now. [00:19:10] Speaker B: Seen a lot of the stuff that he did for comics. [00:19:14] Speaker A: He's drawn a. He has a sign. Bruno San Martino, [00:19:20] Speaker B: I want to see your comic work other. [00:19:23] Speaker A: Oh, [00:19:26] Speaker B: yeah. Okay. I could see that. I, I could see that in the COVID now. Yeah, [00:19:38] Speaker A: Yeah. Anyway, if you have not experienced Bill Sienkiewicz art, it's, it's it kind the [00:19:47] Speaker B: 30 days a night now I can see the. In this cover. I could see that. [00:19:52] Speaker A: When I Should we ask, should we ask Brett if Bill Sienkiewicz had an influence on his art? We should ask when Brett Wadelli, because yeah, it to me, I think I hadn't thought about it before. [00:20:11] Speaker B: Okay. [00:20:11] Speaker A: But the art styles are somewhat similar. [00:20:15] Speaker B: Yeah. No, yeah, I would ask. Yeah, he's done some album covers, not ones that I was imagining. These are Now I see it too. Holy. Okay. [00:20:30] Speaker A: Yeah, the. I know the shares don't show up. I know you're looking at stuff. I know the shares don't show up for the listeners. So you can go to Bill Sinkevich.com and see some of the art, but check this out. Yeah. Like, there's just some. [00:20:46] Speaker B: That is. Yeah, I. Yeah, [00:20:51] Speaker A: just tons of stuff. I mean, the funny thing is that he drew anything in Captain Cara and the Zoo Crew. Makes me. Yeah, that's. [00:20:59] Speaker B: Does. Bonkers. [00:21:02] Speaker A: Well, anyway, I actually, ironically enough, the legion of substitute podcasters a couple of weeks ago, and I didn't want to listen to it, and I ended up. They talked about this. I want to keep going on the podcast. Well, they talked about this years ago. [00:21:18] Speaker B: Oh, okay. [00:21:19] Speaker A: But they had a week off, and so they replayed this issue. That. Or they replayed that episode. So I was listening to it, and so I haven't verified this, but they said that this was a cover that was sitting in the can. [00:21:30] Speaker B: Oh. [00:21:31] Speaker A: That they didn't know how to use. And then, boy, did they find a use for it. [00:21:37] Speaker B: Yeah. No, that's so solid. [00:21:40] Speaker A: I mean, because if you think about this story, this is a perfect cover for the story we're about to get into. But Dawnstar's not in the story a lot. Right. So it's kind of weird that Dawnstar's kind of floating there right in the background. [00:21:54] Speaker B: Well, I mean, she's. She's in there for a minute to a second. Six panels. [00:22:01] Speaker A: Yeah. So, well, anyway, we get into this. We get Meanwhile here in the comic, by the way. [00:22:10] Speaker B: Meanwhile. Oh, look, they're back. [00:22:14] Speaker A: The Doom Patrol. [00:22:15] Speaker B: Oh, cool. [00:22:17] Speaker A: The comic that would set up the much better Grant Morrison run of Doom Patrol that followed the beginning and the [00:22:24] Speaker B: amazing TV show that we all love. [00:22:27] Speaker A: Well, and it was drawn by Steve Lytle. [00:22:30] Speaker B: Oh. [00:22:31] Speaker A: It was also written by Paul Kupperberg, which you'd think that book would have a chance to do something. I think the challenge with that book is I don't think that I felt like that they. I felt like that they tried to make it another X Men book instead of making it a Doom Patrol book. [00:22:49] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:22:49] Speaker A: And then obviously, when Morrison took over, they made it into a Doom Patrol book. Yeah. Which Doom Patrol wasn't a superhero team up book. It was a superhero team up book. That was weird. [00:23:02] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:23:03] Speaker A: It's strange. Strange because it was in Strange Tales. [00:23:06] Speaker B: Yeah, it's a strange. It's a strange book. It's a. It's an interesting. Well, it's a weird snapshot of broken people thrown together with interesting circumstances, figuring out life as it is. [00:23:23] Speaker A: Well, do you want to know some of the other comics that were coming out here? [00:23:27] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:23:28] Speaker A: The Shadow Number two, with a painted cover by Bill Sienkiewicz and art by Bill Sienkiewicz. So Sienkiewicz was also doing art for the Shadow at this time. [00:23:37] Speaker B: Knocking it out. [00:23:38] Speaker A: That probably a lot more well known for that. Yeah. Then. Then this cover here, we had vigilante number 45. [00:23:47] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:23:49] Speaker A: Creeping toward the end. [00:23:51] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:23:53] Speaker A: No joke. Bad jokes. No bad jokes for mature readers only. As we mentioned last time. [00:23:59] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:24:00] Speaker A: We were covering this. Dr. Fate number three. This was the Madison Giffen and Dave Hunt art where Giffen was starting to go crazy and draw mouths everywhere. [00:24:10] Speaker B: All this. [00:24:12] Speaker A: You know what else came out this month? [00:24:13] Speaker B: What? [00:24:15] Speaker A: The unknown comic nobody's ever read. I'm sure you haven't heard of it. Watchmen number 12. [00:24:21] Speaker B: I don't know that book. [00:24:24] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:24:25] Speaker B: Okay. [00:24:25] Speaker A: Is that a. Is that a comic? [00:24:28] Speaker B: I. I bought this. This book a couple years back on Kickstarter called Shitty Watchmen. Did I ever tell you about that? Did I have. If I let you read it, it's really good. It's where a. It's like an anthology where they just got a bunch of different people to do a couple pages in their own style of. Of Watchmen or not in. In their own style, but like, try to just like, you know, hammer it out just kind of crappily. So it's. They're. It's. It's very Shitty Watchmen in a great way. [00:25:06] Speaker A: I. [00:25:07] Speaker B: Every year, usually I'll read Watchmen or Shitty Watchmen. It used to be I'll read Watchmen. Every year I will read Shitty Watchmen or Watchmen, because both of them are good. Shitty Watchmen is fun to read just because it's like watching a. Like a. An up all night movie on usa. [00:25:26] Speaker A: Well, with. With the full knowledge that Alan Moore cannot write empowered women in his stories. [00:25:34] Speaker B: Huh. [00:25:37] Speaker A: I'll just acknowledge that before I make my next statement. [00:25:40] Speaker B: Yeah, Yeah. [00:25:41] Speaker A: I flip. I think V for Vendetta is a better story. [00:25:44] Speaker B: Oh, yeah, that's a. That's another one. That's another one. In my reads, I. I only. [00:25:52] Speaker A: However, you know, you know, DC did a thing called Shitty Watchmen. Right. [00:25:57] Speaker B: I'm sure they did. [00:25:58] Speaker A: I actually was called Before Watchmen. [00:26:00] Speaker B: Oh, before. Okay. [00:26:01] Speaker A: And it is shitty. [00:26:03] Speaker B: Okay. This is just. This is just purely Shitty Watchmen just called Shitty Watchmen. [00:26:07] Speaker A: This was accident. The DC's was accidental. [00:26:10] Speaker B: Accidental. This is purposefully called Shitty Watchmen. They also did, I think another book that was also shitty. Something else. We might have been Shitty X Men too. [00:26:20] Speaker A: Well, and I have some. I have some also, like last time, then they. When Jeff Johns did that doomsday clock thing. [00:26:26] Speaker B: Uhhuh. [00:26:27] Speaker A: And they put a Legion Flight ring on the COVID And then Jeff Johns decided to leave the company, so they, like, didn't do anything with it. So, like, there's just a random Legion flight ring on the COVID of this book and Saturn Girl showing up in the book and then she just like disappears and they ended up putting the Legion for a second in the jsa. The Justice Society of America book that John's before he left for to do his stuff with Image. Yeah, the big imprint. And what is it? Ghost, whatever. Ghost Machine, I think. Imprint. [00:27:04] Speaker B: Okay. [00:27:05] Speaker A: Is that right? Anyway, Ghost something. Anyway, it's the imprint he's doing. Right? It's active right now. [00:27:10] Speaker B: Active right now. [00:27:10] Speaker A: You want to go find it? Just go find it. Look up the Geoff Johns stuff with image. But it's. I like Hyde street actually, out of that. The rest of it I read two issues of and stopped buying. Uh, but the Hyde street, actually, I think you would like it. It's like a horror. [00:27:27] Speaker B: That's cool. [00:27:29] Speaker A: It's a horror book, which you would probably not pick it out for me, but I seem to be picking out more different things between reading Stray Dogs and Feral and now reading Hyde Street. It's. [00:27:44] Speaker B: Yeah. Sounds. [00:27:44] Speaker A: Maybe I'm branching out. Maybe I'm branching out. Branching out. People. [00:27:48] Speaker B: He's. He's finding new things that he enjoys. Oh, my gosh. People can grow. People can. If Dan can do it, you can do it too. [00:27:58] Speaker A: Also. Yeah, also the book you've. We saw advertised that neither of us had heard from a 12 part series by Gary Bates called Silver Blade. It's the first issue of that. [00:28:08] Speaker B: Oh. [00:28:08] Speaker A: Oh. It actually was published. I thought it was a lie. [00:28:11] Speaker B: It was. It wasn't a lie. It's not the cake. It is real. Maybe we should read that. Dan next. [00:28:19] Speaker A: Also, Infinity Inc. Number 42. And this just makes me sad. Fury quits to seek the father of her unborn child. It's like. Because, remember, Fury and Hector hall can't exist because their parents don't exist. Because the crisis happens. [00:28:36] Speaker B: Yes. [00:28:37] Speaker A: Right. So you know, crisis continued. Crisis. And D.C. editorial continuing to destroy books. [00:28:43] Speaker B: Yes. [00:28:44] Speaker A: Not just Legion, but other books as well. What do you do there? You. You put the. Put the writer in a corner and tell them, well, you don't have all these parts now that you've been using. [00:28:54] Speaker B: Right, Right. [00:28:56] Speaker A: And figure a way out. Anyway, we've got the Legion. We've got. We've got. We've got the. The Fantastic Legion. Yeah, yeah, those guys. Dr. Stretcho, our brainiac Stretch. [00:29:14] Speaker B: Oh, Brainiac Stretch. Oh, [00:29:17] Speaker A: let's See Brainiac, Stretcho, Johnny Sunboy. [00:29:21] Speaker B: Johnny Sunboy. [00:29:23] Speaker A: Ben Block. [00:29:24] Speaker B: Huh. [00:29:26] Speaker A: And the Invisible Kid. [00:29:29] Speaker B: Oh, and the Invisible Kid. Yes, the Invisible Kid. [00:29:33] Speaker A: That's actual, his actual name. [00:29:34] Speaker B: Yes, yes, the Invisible Kid. So does he get his gag when he takes off his clothes and no one can look at him? [00:29:44] Speaker A: Maybe he, he, he actually, he actually says that they actually, in his explanation, the fans have explained his power to be that he has a small field that extends past his clothing. So he can actually just make that invisible as well. [00:30:01] Speaker B: I see. [00:30:03] Speaker A: Yes. This one's written by Paul Levitz, Greg larocque and Mike DeCarlo on art. John Costanza on letters. Carl Gafford is coloring this one. Arnie Starr on Ink assists again, which we've, we've upgraded Arnie Starr's quality, apparently. [00:30:19] Speaker B: Yes. [00:30:20] Speaker A: From the Booster Gold days. Karen Burger, editing and dedicated to the memory of E. Nelson Bridwell or of Enb the former Superman group editor. Yeah, and then, and then the line that already gives me the chills. So in the hope that he would approved. If he would have approved. Sorry, I said that wrong. In the hope, in the hope that he would have approved. And I don't think he would have approved having Superman not be Superboy. So we're already. [00:31:00] Speaker B: So you think that he would not have approved this book? [00:31:04] Speaker A: I, I, I don't. I, I mean, he might if, if given all of the, if, if you gave the writer Paul Levitt and said you no longer. The Legion is no longer inspired by Superboy, which was a book from 1958. Yeah, we start with that and cancel. You have to write your way out of that. I mean, maybe so. I think Paul is probably more saying, hopefully you approve the way I wrote out of that. But no, I, I don't think the Superman office would have been like, I mean, one, I don't think the Superman office would have been like, kill Supergirl in crisis. [00:31:41] Speaker B: Oh. [00:31:42] Speaker A: And then I don't think the Superman office would have been like, there's no Superboy. Superman just magically gets his powers later. [00:31:51] Speaker B: Magically appears. All of a sudden, one day he's like, he's just a regular. [00:31:54] Speaker A: It also just doesn't make sense. Right? It's such a mutant origin for. It's such an X Men origin for super. [00:32:02] Speaker B: He's a normal dude that all of a sudden just gets powers at the snap of a finger. [00:32:05] Speaker A: Like, right. [00:32:06] Speaker B: He's 25 and now he's powered. [00:32:10] Speaker A: Right. His powers are powered by the sun. He would certainly. [00:32:14] Speaker B: He's been charging his Battery. This whole time, Dan, he's like a freaking. Like a. [00:32:19] Speaker A: Like a. [00:32:22] Speaker B: Like a. A solar battery. He's been. [00:32:26] Speaker A: Well, they did that Flash. The. Wasn't that the Flash story? The. The Flash story that. Where, you know, they. They change the universe. Flash goes back in time and mess up the whole universe. And they had locked Superman away, and he comes out all skinny. Oh, was that from that story? Because he had never been exposed to the sun. Yeah, they had locked the alien away, and as soon as he gets sun, he goes crazy because he's like, oh, my God. [00:32:51] Speaker B: What. [00:32:52] Speaker A: What the hell? Well, and he'd been tormented by captors, so, yeah, you can imagine. That doesn't go well. [00:32:58] Speaker B: That's terrible. Then he would become the. He would become the Superman that everybody doesn't want him to ever be. He becomes the guy that's like, I'm going to take over the world. Dark Superman or. [00:33:11] Speaker A: Well, yeah, he becomes the character that the author of Invincible wants. [00:33:17] Speaker B: Oh, yeah. Or. Or. Or of the amazing movie that was created by Mr. Gun. [00:33:28] Speaker A: Yeah. Or. [00:33:29] Speaker B: I mean, that would. Have you never seen that movie? [00:33:32] Speaker A: Which movie? [00:33:33] Speaker B: The Brightburn. [00:33:36] Speaker A: Oh, I've not seen it. Holy. [00:33:38] Speaker B: I'm sorry. I think I am, like, I'm swearing [00:33:41] Speaker A: all over the place. [00:33:42] Speaker B: Dude, you need to go see that. Like. [00:33:44] Speaker A: Okay, okay. [00:33:45] Speaker B: You need to go watch tonight. [00:33:47] Speaker A: It's. It's Garth in his Superman too. [00:33:51] Speaker B: It's. It is. It is good stuff. [00:33:55] Speaker A: Do you know what? Do you know, it would be awesome if instead of Donald Trump's AI creating him as Jesus, if you just create him as Homelander each time. [00:34:07] Speaker B: Oh, and then we just have milk. [00:34:11] Speaker A: Yeah, you. But he probably does that with Melania. [00:34:19] Speaker B: Well, he can't do that if he's Homelander. [00:34:22] Speaker A: That's what. [00:34:23] Speaker B: Homeland. [00:34:24] Speaker A: Yeah. Well, you know what? Back to back. No, I don't want. No, no, no, no. I'm not going down this road. [00:34:30] Speaker B: Look at me. [00:34:30] Speaker A: Beautiful. Look at. Look at these beautiful art pages here. Yeah, look at that. And look, it looks like Superboy, not Superman. [00:34:41] Speaker B: Yes. Yes, it does. [00:34:42] Speaker A: You see that? I see it. Greg Laroque and Mike decarlo can draw. [00:34:46] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:34:46] Speaker A: Can distinguish between ages of character. [00:34:49] Speaker B: A man and a boy. There's a difference. [00:34:51] Speaker A: Okay, well, we. We get the folks traveling through time. [00:34:57] Speaker B: I do find it funny that that. That Brainiac 5 and. And. And Superboy have Superman. Is it Superman? [00:35:07] Speaker A: Superboy, Superboy. They. [00:35:09] Speaker B: They have similar faces. [00:35:12] Speaker A: They do have similar faces. If. I mean. Well, Bill Sinkevich Sienkiewicz did not draw this, but he said he was inspired By Jack Kirby and Kurt Swan. In Kurt Swan book, everybody has the same face. [00:35:25] Speaker B: Oh, snap. Get out. [00:35:30] Speaker A: Do you notice how Block and Sunboy now look like themselves again? [00:35:33] Speaker B: They do. [00:35:34] Speaker A: And not like. [00:35:35] Speaker B: They don't look like. [00:35:36] Speaker A: And not. Are not like Sean Cassidy and Sean Cassidy. I called Sean Cassidy Siren in a previous episode, too, instead of Banshee. Siren is a completely different character. [00:35:49] Speaker B: Yeah, Banshee is. [00:35:52] Speaker A: I was listening to the edit, and I didn't edit it out. And I'm like, somebody's gonna be so pissed that I called Sean Cassidy something else. Anyway. Well, I didn't know you were talking about Angie. I thought you were talking about the. [00:36:08] Speaker B: This. The Sean Cassidy. The. The. The amazing singer from the Partridge Family. [00:36:13] Speaker A: No, I was talking. No, you did not. Not in the context that we were discussing. So [00:36:22] Speaker B: you did not. [00:36:23] Speaker A: I did not even bring it up at the time. [00:36:24] Speaker B: You got so bad. [00:36:27] Speaker A: So anyway, Superboy rehashes the story a little bit for the readers that didn't pick up the other two books that are just reading the Legion book. He talks about the red skies from the crisis coming to destroy his universe, as they did all the universes. Right. Except for one that we had left. He tries to fight the giant red skies since he's Superboy. He tries to punch them. He tries to use super breath. He tries to use his eyes. And then ultimately he's going to fly straight into them, which would have killed him because he would have been evaporated by the antimatter like every everybody else. And the time Trapper appears and is like, wait, Superboy, don't throw your life away until you've heard what I've had to say. And so the time Trapper makes a deal with Superboy, and he's recounting this to the frozen Legionnaires. So we've got all our. We got our other folks. We've got Ultra Boy and Monel and Night Girl. And of course, we have Cosmic Boy. But not in his Mike Grell best costume. Of course. [00:37:34] Speaker B: Yes, yes. [00:37:35] Speaker A: Not. Not in the bustier. [00:37:36] Speaker B: Not in the bustier. [00:37:38] Speaker A: But it kind of. Because it's just pink there. Yeah, the pink costume, it's kind of there. So slightly goes over slightly. And time Trapper's like, cackling away at his evil plan, telling it everybody. And by the way, this is all set up in Smallville High School. So apparently Smallville High School has a huge gym. [00:37:58] Speaker B: Well, most gyms back in the day were pretty big. [00:38:02] Speaker A: They were part of everything. [00:38:03] Speaker B: Yeah, they're the biggest. Yeah. In town altogether. [00:38:07] Speaker A: Yeah, it'd be like building yourself a ballroom or something. [00:38:10] Speaker B: Oh, you know. Yeah. Yeah. [00:38:13] Speaker A: Good. Gold toilet seats. Yeah. [00:38:15] Speaker B: House a lot of people there. [00:38:17] Speaker A: I can tell you that. Most of the gyms I went to didn't have gold toilet seats though. [00:38:20] Speaker B: That's true. Imagine a golden toilet seat. [00:38:23] Speaker A: Spray paint. [00:38:25] Speaker B: Now that's a thing. [00:38:26] Speaker A: Well, the time trapper explains that. You never understood me, legionnaires. You confused me with my mortal tools, fragile and expendable dupes that they were. Then you were unwise enough to try to leave your own era, your tiny little world. Tiny of a single nature. Never realizing that there you were, safe for me and there alone. The time stream is my domain. Ever since that first time you dared attempt a journey through time, I've guided you, steering you through the possibilities to a little corner of reality. I kept waiting until now when I will use it to bring about the end of time itself. [00:39:09] Speaker B: Jerk. [00:39:10] Speaker A: I did think it's nice that they did the original first appearance costumes from the original Adventure 247 there. [00:39:19] Speaker B: Yeah, I know. I. I noticed that too. [00:39:22] Speaker A: Oh, I could go grab my adventure 247 from across the room. He could. [00:39:27] Speaker B: If he was so inclined. [00:39:30] Speaker A: If I was so inclined. [00:39:31] Speaker B: But he would have to get out of. Not his boxes, but now his cupboards. His. His. [00:39:37] Speaker A: Actually, that one's still sitting out. It's not shoved into. It's not shoved into the. [00:39:42] Speaker B: Put it into the metal casing. [00:39:44] Speaker A: That one's going into a plastic case actually. [00:39:46] Speaker B: Oh, that's nice. [00:39:48] Speaker A: I got some of those Cool. Okay. [00:39:50] Speaker B: Side note from the cool. [00:39:51] Speaker A: Yeah, well, no, I got some of those cool BCW plastic cases that have the UV protection on them. [00:39:58] Speaker B: That's cool. [00:39:58] Speaker A: Yeah, those are nice to throw some stuff in. So wanted to decorate the office here now that I got the office more set up. You all don't see the office. Maybe I'll show it up some other time. [00:40:10] Speaker B: I'm going to tell you, I get [00:40:11] Speaker A: some more books away. He, he. [00:40:13] Speaker B: He gave me. He gave me the quick tour everybody. And I've seen. I've seen the office in the past. I've hung out in the office once or twice over the last few years and it has been in various stages of change of boxes. No boxes. Boxes. No boxes. Boxes. No boxes. New things that would house comics. And now those things are full of comics and no boxes. Yes. I'm amazed. [00:40:48] Speaker A: Many. Well, I can flash over here. It is many file cabinets full of comics. [00:40:53] Speaker B: These cabinets are very nice. [00:40:57] Speaker A: You can see. [00:40:57] Speaker B: I'm very impressed. [00:40:59] Speaker A: Thank you to a Facebook group basically called Comic File Cabinets. And. But for guiding me to these steps, they have done it much better than I have. They, they. A lot of people put the foam board and make rows in the cabinets. I just throw the foam board down in the base of the file cabinet and then stack them in order. I didn't go to the point of making rows. And yeah, but yeah, they box them out. They. It, it. It's fantastic. And I can get to my books. So it makes it like if we're doing a podcast too, I can just go in, grab a book like I did, pull it right out, and bring it here instead of pulling boxes off racks and trying to find the books. [00:41:40] Speaker B: And yeah, it's not like my situation where you're sitting there like, oh, I might get a hernia pulling two or three boxes off of each box to get to the one box that I need. Oh, no, I'm sorry, that was the wrong box. You got to put the other two boxes back on because it was the first box, but you didn't open the box to look and. Yeah, no. Oh, sorry. [00:42:00] Speaker A: Well, and I would say too, for most sane people that don't have 17,000 comic books, the comic drawers I've got it calculated about, they hold between 500 and 550 books a drawer. So if you have a reasonable collection, you can go out. And most of these file cabinets that I purchased were 25 to 30, 40 bucks each. They used to be super expensive. Right. You know, to buy one of these was like 300 bucks. And so now that people don't want these vertical file cabinets, you just get the HAN 4 drawer vertical file cabinets and put a couple in an office or put one in office. You can house your whole collection and access it and makes it very readable. Nice. I can't. I can't say I like it. And the only thing about my stupid basement is the floor is uneven. So I do have one file cabinet I'm eventually going to have to unload and adjust all the little feets at the bottom because I can already see it tilting. But it's. Yeah. I mean, besides that, if you have an actual level floor and get these things in, it's fantastic. Well, back to the story. So we're. We go back to Legion headquarters. You'll recall from the last Legion episode issue, we had a subplot going on with Dawnstar and. And Wildfire. And Wildfire has Quizlet has helped him create his body out of anti energy instead of using his suit. [00:43:28] Speaker B: Wow. [00:43:28] Speaker A: So there's There's a new wildfire. [00:43:30] Speaker B: A whole entire body of fire. [00:43:33] Speaker A: We'll just say by the crocums at the bottom. That's how we're drinking. If we were drinking today, we would say take a drink, right? [00:43:39] Speaker B: Oh, take a drink. [00:43:40] Speaker A: Our water. Yeah. [00:43:42] Speaker B: Get hydrated, everybody. [00:43:44] Speaker A: That is also a tribute to the legion of Substitute podcasters Podcast. They take a drink every time there's a crackum or a craftum or a [00:43:51] Speaker B: zoom or a sound. [00:43:53] Speaker A: Yeah, that's good for them. And anyway, he. They have a fight and she's. They're still fighting over whether he's man enough to. Whatever. I don't know. [00:44:06] Speaker B: He's not. [00:44:06] Speaker A: She's still trying to decide if she wants to date an energy energy ball of energy or not. [00:44:11] Speaker B: You liked him when he was just a ball of energy in a suit, not a ball of energy trying to be a man. Well, I mean, that's really what it comes down to. [00:44:22] Speaker A: Yes, it is. And it's a. It's kind of an annoying subplot because I don't know that it even goes anywhere after this. Like, it's been happening for years and then. I don't know, it's. Never resolve it. [00:44:33] Speaker B: It's hot. [00:44:34] Speaker A: Well, Anyway, Superman, Brainiac 5 comes up with some way to freeze the Legion, but where they can look frozen but break out. Superboy flies them all to Smallville High, flies them to meet the Time Trapper. It's kind of hilarious because he shows up at Smallville High and there's all these electrical equipment in the background and the Time Trapper appears. But if you'll see the middle panel there, I think it's really funny because there's like a high school gym door. [00:45:03] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:45:04] Speaker A: In the panel. I thought that was really clever by Greg Laroque just to like, all this fanciful stuff is here, all this futuristic stuff. And then he just puts like the typical exit door sign at the door and back in the background. [00:45:18] Speaker B: It's a normal gym. [00:45:20] Speaker A: Nothing continuing to. To illustrate his ability. His. His artistic ability to do. To draw the flat background of Smallville. Right. With the tribute art almost to Kurt Swan, and then still draw all this really cool. I mean, we could maybe call it a tribute to Kirby and Giffen. Right. Like, you know, in that art style, you know, back to. I grabbed this and finally put it in a thing. But this was that. [00:45:47] Speaker B: Oh, yeah. [00:45:48] Speaker A: That one cover from when we did Great Darkness Saga. [00:45:50] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:45:51] Speaker A: I mean, if you compare. [00:45:54] Speaker B: It's right there. It's. It is there. [00:45:57] Speaker A: Yeah. And so Very similar. It's. And obviously very neat. Yeah, I grabbed that out just for the podcast. By the way, as a quick side, I pulled out my one of my. My Eli Wolf print. He has many prints, but. [00:46:14] Speaker B: He has many prints. But that's a really. [00:46:15] Speaker A: I loved this one. So I bought it. [00:46:17] Speaker B: What is it called? [00:46:20] Speaker A: I don't know what it's called. [00:46:21] Speaker B: You should go to its website and look for the name. [00:46:23] Speaker A: I could find the name. [00:46:25] Speaker B: I was wearing one of his shirts yesterday. [00:46:31] Speaker A: They are fantastic. I think they're hilarious. Anyway, well, Superboy is given a gun by the Time Trapper super boy. [00:46:43] Speaker B: He's like, guns? [00:46:44] Speaker A: No, he does not show your worth. Kill all the legionnaires. And he says, no, I won't do that. And he squishes it up. He throws it at the Time Trapper. It goes through the Time Trapper and the fantastic, fantastic Legion starts to fly the time out of the time bubble. And Superboy has this evil look on his face. [00:47:09] Speaker B: Oh man, he's about to get Trapper time. [00:47:12] Speaker A: He's going to get him in the ghetto. He said, over our dead bodies. So they all start attacking the most good. They all start attacking the Time Trapper at the same time. It does not go well. [00:47:24] Speaker B: That's right. [00:47:24] Speaker A: The Time Trapper just gets really big. Sunboy tries to zap him. [00:47:29] Speaker B: It's Brainiac tries use this big brain to get him. [00:47:32] Speaker A: Yeah, they it's not going well. Time Trapper or the Brainiac 5 gets the stasis ray though, and he unfreezes the other legionnaires. So now they're all attacking him. So now we've got the big heavy hitter. So you've got the Legion's three heaviest hitters. You've got Superboy, Monel and Ultra Boy. [00:47:53] Speaker B: Heck yeah. [00:47:54] Speaker A: Along with the rest of them all going after the Time Trapper. [00:47:58] Speaker B: You got the heavy hitters and the weak ones. [00:48:02] Speaker A: Well, if it's dark, if it's dark in the gym. [00:48:06] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:48:07] Speaker A: Night Girl, she's ready to go. Yeah. However, Sunboy keeps shooting light beams. Sunbeams. So I'm not sure how useful Night Girl is fighting with Sunboy. [00:48:21] Speaker B: No, they're not good. They're not a good pair. [00:48:23] Speaker A: It's not a good pair. Now Shadow last as I mentioned last time and Night Girl got together. [00:48:27] Speaker B: Heck yeah. You put them together, that's peanut butter and jelly right there. [00:48:33] Speaker A: But Sunboy and Night Girl, that's like jelly and pickles. [00:48:38] Speaker B: Jelly. But then sometimes jelly and pickles is good. If it's the right kind of jelly. What kind of jelly would you put with pickles, Dan? [00:48:47] Speaker A: And you'd put like a. Some sort of like, jalapeno jelly or something. [00:48:51] Speaker B: Hell, yeah. Jalapeno jelly and pickles and peanut butter on a sandwich with a hot. Hot dog and a hamburger inside. That sandwich would be delicious. [00:49:03] Speaker A: I literally don't know what you're talking about right now. [00:49:05] Speaker B: Have you ever had a hot dog before with a hamburger? [00:49:08] Speaker A: You just put 17 different things on a sandwich. Okay, so now that we've done that, we're gonna go ahead and continue is. I don't know where that's going. So the. My phone is making noise, even though [00:49:20] Speaker B: he always tells me to put my phone on mute. But then when it's him, it's okay, everybody. Did you hear that? No. It did it again. [00:49:28] Speaker A: Yeah. What's really frustrating is when you flip the button. [00:49:31] Speaker B: Stop texting him. [00:49:32] Speaker A: When you flip. When you flip the button to turn it off here. I'm going to hold up for the listeners. You don't know what's going on. I'm gonna literally. There's this thing right here. See that slider? That's all the way up to the top that makes it turn off. So we're gonna do that again. So we're gonna go down and we're gonna turn it off. See, now it says ring. Oh, I turn it up and it's not ring anymore. Okay, so now it should be off, [00:49:58] Speaker B: and then it still goes off. [00:50:00] Speaker A: Why do they have a feature if it doesn't work? [00:50:03] Speaker B: Because it. They want you to get your messages, Dan. They want you to know that I'm sending you text messages. [00:50:10] Speaker A: They're just sending me. It's just Twitch sending me messages that if I watch the out of the park baseball channel, I can get pack drops and all. It's doing well. [00:50:20] Speaker B: They also want you to know that ishowspeed dropped a new video. [00:50:24] Speaker A: Ishowspeed is a. I've learned more about Ishowspeed then. He is a very nice man. Who. [00:50:35] Speaker B: He is, people. He's a very nice guy. [00:50:38] Speaker A: I do not want to watch him on television or on the Internet. Okay? [00:50:49] Speaker B: He. [00:50:50] Speaker A: It's like. And here I am just talking about watching somebody watch play video games, you know, on Twitch, and then here I am bashing it. [00:51:01] Speaker B: I know. [00:51:02] Speaker A: So he's a nice guy. I'm sure he's a nice guy. He's. I am not his demographic, so. [00:51:07] Speaker B: Not his demographic. [00:51:09] Speaker A: Yeah. By age. [00:51:11] Speaker B: By age, yes, by age. [00:51:13] Speaker A: I should be very clear about that. So anyway, Time Trapper is going after them. And he says, fools, even if there were an army of you, it would not matter. It would matter. Not. And they scream out, It's a good thing we're not just an army then, Trapper. We're a legion. [00:51:33] Speaker B: Oh, snap. [00:51:35] Speaker A: And Night Girl is hitting him, even though there's, like, Kirby Crackle and Son things. And he's his Night Girl, so she is contributing down there. Yeah. Get him. I don't know why I'm so obsessed with whether or not Night Girl can punch the time trap or not. I. I just. I don't think punching Entropy will really help you. [00:51:53] Speaker B: It will, though. Have you ever tried? [00:51:56] Speaker A: I have not. [00:51:57] Speaker B: You should, and then you'll have a better life. I think everybody should punch entropy. [00:52:04] Speaker A: Well, Time Trapper threatens Superboy and is like, I'll. If you don't stop it, I'm gonna deactivate the device that postpones your world's doom. And then Superboy accidentally smashes it. [00:52:16] Speaker B: Oh, damn Superboy. [00:52:19] Speaker A: Always doing things, you know. Then we get an interlude. Brand new leader and former leader of the substitute heroes. You remember he was a great leader of the substitute Heroes, as you recall. Yeah. [00:52:31] Speaker B: Yes. He was the best leader. [00:52:34] Speaker A: She was the best leader. [00:52:35] Speaker B: You got two of the best leaders. [00:52:37] Speaker A: We got two of the best. Yeah. Dream girl. Well, and Dream girl was in the Legion of Substitute Heroes temporarily. Did you know that? [00:52:42] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah. [00:52:44] Speaker A: So I don't think you knew that. [00:52:46] Speaker B: I didn't know that. [00:52:47] Speaker A: I was trying to sound educated. She was. She was. [00:52:50] Speaker B: Thanks for making me sound stupid. [00:52:52] Speaker A: Well, okay, well, you would have loved this story. Okay, because see, Starboy was kicked out of the Legion for killing Ken's new horror in self defense with a guy. [00:53:04] Speaker B: New whore. [00:53:05] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah. [00:53:07] Speaker B: What. What happened to his old one? [00:53:09] Speaker A: Yeah, I don't know, but that was. That was his name. So anyway, they shot him and. And so they kicked Starboy out of the Legion because legionnaires don't kill. [00:53:21] Speaker B: Oh, man. [00:53:21] Speaker A: So he joined the Substitute Heroes. [00:53:24] Speaker B: Yes. [00:53:25] Speaker A: And Dream Girl, who had come to the Legion thinking that the Legion was going to die in a. In an. In a spaceship crash, like lots of them, but it ended up being Legion robots. See, her fortune telling powers. Correct. [00:53:42] Speaker B: Yes. [00:53:43] Speaker A: They failed her. Yes. Right, but wrong. Right, but wrong. So she leaves and doesn't join the Legion at that time, so she joins the Substitute Heroes for a while. And then. And then a cloud of kryptonite. Cloud. [00:53:59] Speaker B: Oh. [00:53:59] Speaker A: Surrounds the whole Earth. And so Superboy and Supergirl have to leave the Legion. [00:54:04] Speaker B: Oh, man. [00:54:05] Speaker A: And so these two people in lead lined suits show up named Sir Prize. Sir S I R. Yeah. Prize. [00:54:16] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:54:17] Speaker A: And Ms. Terrius. [00:54:22] Speaker B: Mysterious. Yes. [00:54:24] Speaker A: Show show back up. And they take the place of Superboy and Supergirl until the cloud has dissipated. [00:54:34] Speaker B: I see. [00:54:35] Speaker A: And they can come back. And it turns out surprise, surprise, surprise is Starboy. And Miss Darius is Dream Girl. And they rejoin. They join the League. Well, she joins the Legion and Starboy is let back in. [00:54:56] Speaker B: I see. [00:54:57] Speaker A: So they've changed their mind. [00:55:00] Speaker B: Surprise, surprise. [00:55:03] Speaker A: I will also let you know that in the issue where Starboy was. Was. Was not allowed to be in the Legion anymore, he was voted out. All of the girls voted for him to stay. [00:55:16] Speaker B: I see. But all the boys. [00:55:17] Speaker A: How sexist was that? [00:55:18] Speaker B: They. They. [00:55:19] Speaker A: Silver Age was a bit sexist, but [00:55:21] Speaker B: then all the boys voted him out. Yeah, because it. Well, I mean, because he did what none of them could do. He killed. [00:55:28] Speaker A: Yeah, well, but then anyway, [00:55:33] Speaker B: there's a killer in their midst with that aside. [00:55:36] Speaker A: And this is why Travis could not be on the podcast, because he would have just lost his mind during that sequence. [00:55:42] Speaker B: During that. That whole entire discussion or during this sequence where it's like, during that discussion, the two best leaders. [00:55:48] Speaker A: Now we know that he just would have been looking at Dream Girl the whole time. [00:55:54] Speaker B: Oh God. Yeah, he'd have been, Travis, I love you to death, but you would have been perving out Travis. A little bit about. A little. And a little bit about both Dream Girl and. [00:56:08] Speaker A: I don't think so anyway. [00:56:09] Speaker B: You don't think so? [00:56:11] Speaker A: So he might. I. [00:56:12] Speaker B: He might. [00:56:13] Speaker A: Dream Girl is. [00:56:14] Speaker B: He's got it. He's got such a nice face. [00:56:16] Speaker A: Dream Girl is here. Comforting. [00:56:18] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:56:18] Speaker A: Is that a good word? It's comforting. [00:56:20] Speaker B: Comforting. [00:56:23] Speaker A: Polar boy making him feel like he's doing a good job. [00:56:25] Speaker B: Look at polar boy's face in that, like what, 1, 2, 3, 4 panel. He said he's like, so, like. [00:56:32] Speaker A: Yeah, well, anyway, we go back to the actual story. Story. [00:56:38] Speaker B: Yeah. Yeah. [00:56:39] Speaker A: And now it looks like the crisis is happening again. Because now. Because it is. [00:56:45] Speaker B: No, we can't happen. We know someone. Bad news. [00:56:50] Speaker A: Yeah. Anytime there's a crisis, it's always great. And so it's good times. We love a crisis. Everyone loves a crisis. [00:56:59] Speaker B: No one loves a crisis. Save all the people. [00:57:02] Speaker A: Yeah. And here we got a crisis going on and the time Trapper is just standing up there watching because he's [00:57:14] Speaker B: is a jerk. [00:57:15] Speaker A: And he has a convers. He has a conversation. They. They find him. Cosmic Boy, Night Girl and Brainiac 5. And he says to Brainiac 5. And you, Brainiac 5, you struggle on as well. [00:57:31] Speaker B: I miss you. [00:57:32] Speaker A: Immortal, wise enough to uncover some of time's secrets, might have been wise enough to admit defeat. And Brainiac 5 says, never, even if you destroy the past, so we have no future to go back to. And the Time Trapper goes on a soliloquy and says, this is never your past, Legionnaire, only a whispery possibility I connected you to when you were presumptuous enough to try to travel through time. Each time you broke the time barrier, I sent you here until this Earth began to fall apart and the jest paled. Farewell. He says, hold it, Trapper. And he puts him in a force field. And the Trapper goes crazy and says it, you have force field to hold me. You are amusing. And Brainiac 5 says, the 30th century will survive. And Time Chopper says, all centuries will on your Earth, the true Earth. But you won't. We will. And the Time Trapper just starts laughing. Yes. And this is really sad because, I mean, honestly, if you are the smartest boy in the universe. [00:58:41] Speaker B: Yes. [00:58:43] Speaker A: And you thought you had done something, huh? And you've been doing this thing for years, and you thought you were an expert, and then this megalomaniac being, like, tells you, nope, I've been doing this to you the whole time. I'm surprised. He's just not going a little bit crazy right there. Yeah, I think his mind is unfreeing a little bit. I don't think so. That's one way to take. I think the best way to take Brainiac five out of the fight is not to actually hurt him, is to do it on the next page, but is to give him doubt. [00:59:18] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:59:19] Speaker A: Ooh. [00:59:20] Speaker B: Doubt kills. [00:59:22] Speaker A: Which is a weird thing because on page 18, they take him out of the fight physically because he's still trying to figure things out. But I kind of think if. If Paul. If Paul Levitz had just left it at PA age 17 there just broke his brain. Just the doubt. Yeah, just. He's just. He can't do anything because of the. He's doubting himself. I mean, that would have been a good. [00:59:42] Speaker B: Like. I mean, like we learned in debate, like, the only way to kill an idea is to. To surpass it with another idea. [00:59:48] Speaker A: Right? [00:59:49] Speaker B: I mean, that's what. That's what the Timekeeper has done. [00:59:51] Speaker A: He's hit him with a Time Trapper. [00:59:53] Speaker B: Time Trapper. Time Keeper. Time Trapper Keeper. He's hit them. He's hit Brainiac 5 with a. Another idea that is better than the idea that he had. [01:00:04] Speaker A: Well, and. And. And Cosmic Boy does try to snap him out of it. So we do get that doubt, like a slam Jim. And Cosmic Boy tries to snap him out of it, but. And tell him, hey, you can do this. And then he's doubting himself. So, I mean, I like that part. I just didn't think the physical part here at the bottom was necessary. [01:00:22] Speaker B: Yeah, you didn't need that. He just needed the. Come on. [01:00:25] Speaker A: You just need to be sad with the machine where he says, I don't have the materials. I can't do this. [01:00:29] Speaker B: I can't do it. Wow. Hey, what was that? The machine again. It's talking to you. What's it telling you? [01:00:36] Speaker A: Frustrating. What's it telling you? Super frustrating. Oh, man. Super frustrating. [01:00:40] Speaker B: I'm glad my phone is on mute. [01:00:43] Speaker A: Yes. This is super professional. My phone is on mute. [01:00:51] Speaker B: I love it. I love it. [01:00:52] Speaker A: That's what I want to stress here is my phone is on mute. [01:00:55] Speaker B: Apparently not. [01:00:58] Speaker A: I'm still getting notifications because, my God, can you not get. And you know, you turn off all the damn notifications and they keep coming back, [01:01:13] Speaker B: people. [01:01:13] Speaker A: I try to clear the apps off my phone. [01:01:15] Speaker B: Here's the question. [01:01:16] Speaker A: It keeps five or six apps on the phone. Do you like when I hit the close all? [01:01:23] Speaker B: Yeah. [01:01:23] Speaker A: That means no. I really want Facebook to stay fucking open. [01:01:29] Speaker B: Do you like it when Dan gets notified that these have happened in the world? I mean, if you do, let us know. [01:01:41] Speaker A: Do not message me right now. [01:01:43] Speaker B: I'm not gonna mess anyway. [01:01:45] Speaker A: Right now I will come to your house and beat you up. [01:01:49] Speaker B: No, I can't. [01:01:53] Speaker A: Well, anyway, they can't fight everything. And so the machine is there, and Brainiac 5 is breaking down. He's like, the energies are too strong. There's nothing really broken except the containment vessel. There's no way to fix that. I don't have the parts, basically. And Superboy flies in and he says, there is. And Brady Act 5 is like, Superboy, what are you doing? He's like, I'm repairing what we broke. If what's needed is something to channel the energies, I'm it. And in a Paul Levitt's comic, whenever you get an A scream like this. [01:02:29] Speaker B: Yes. [01:02:31] Speaker A: Stop sending me messages, Greg. [01:02:33] Speaker B: Oh, I didn't. Yes, yes. [01:02:38] Speaker A: That was unsuccessful, Greg, because you sent me a Facebook messenger message and it went off in my earpiece instead of on my phone. So instead of actually doing the podcast, you are now trying to annoy me. [01:02:51] Speaker B: I wasn't trying to. [01:02:52] Speaker A: Fantastic. And not pay Attention at all. So now we actually get here and Superboy holds onto the thing. The Earth starts to move again. Monel and Ultra Boy try to go get him. He uses a super breath to blow them away. And he screams. And the Earth moves where it's supposed to go. The pocket universe moves away from the red clouds. And the red storm, it's gone. It's safe. But Superman or Superboy, I should say, he's not. Okay, I'm done. [01:03:28] Speaker B: Done. He's done. [01:03:32] Speaker A: And I said I would cry. I don't know if I'm to the point of crying yet. [01:03:35] Speaker B: But you think it was written now? [01:03:38] Speaker A: I cried the last five times I read this book. Or six or eight or whatever. [01:03:42] Speaker B: So do you think this. If this was written now, it would just say I'm cooked? [01:03:50] Speaker A: Maybe. [01:03:51] Speaker B: I believe. [01:03:53] Speaker A: I don't think this book would be written now because now there's like 2700 super boys. Oh, dang. [01:04:00] Speaker B: Huh? [01:04:00] Speaker A: Well, Superboy says I can read the energy pulses. Earth's being pulled away somewhere safe. And they're all like, quick, get them into the time. Get them into the time bubble. The face facial changes, by the way. [01:04:15] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah. [01:04:15] Speaker A: On the lower card is fantastic. Yeah, yeah. I mean, the tone of the book. [01:04:20] Speaker B: Oh. [01:04:20] Speaker A: Goes with it is hard. [01:04:24] Speaker B: Like, I mean, it goes. It goes. Moves. It's really. [01:04:31] Speaker A: And then. And then Superboy throws everybody in the time. They go take him in the time bubble, but he goes back outside and he's like, you heard what the trapper said about how he controlled that. What realities the time bubble could reach. I can't let you stop him from getting back to your world now that you saved mine. I always could travel through time, get to your Metropolis on my own. Maybe because the trapper did to me what the trapper did to me. Or maybe it was the time beacon. Maybe it's just because I could always do anything. I really truly had to. And I'll be damned if I let the time trap or anything stop me now. [01:05:10] Speaker B: Yeah. [01:05:12] Speaker A: Because that's kind of the way Superman, Superboy was written in the Silver Age. Right. [01:05:17] Speaker B: Just a solid can do kind of [01:05:19] Speaker A: person and just could do it everything. And then we get the page and Monel breaks Superboy out of the time bubble. He holds him and Superboy dies in his arms. And so now Paul Levitz has killed Batman. [01:05:46] Speaker B: Yeah. [01:05:47] Speaker A: And Superboy. And if you don't know what I'm referring to with Batman, he killed the Golden Age Batman. Until you got the origin of the Huntress or is after the origin of the Hunters, I think, because he killed the Golden Age Catwoman first. Right. In a story. Was that Levitz or was that. [01:06:06] Speaker B: Thought it was. I could be wrong. It. [01:06:11] Speaker A: Anyway, I've got this. I've got it back behind. [01:06:12] Speaker B: It might have been Wayne and then Levitz did Batman. [01:06:16] Speaker A: Levitz had Levitz. I thought Levitz wrote the first appearance of the Huntress, though, in that DC Superstars book we read. Yeah, that one with the narrow story and the hunter story and the Legion story in it. So. [01:06:27] Speaker B: Yeah. Yeah. [01:06:29] Speaker A: I can't. Well, Levitz probably did the Legion story. I don't. Was that. That one was weird. Right. Because it wasn't Eleven's Legion story. Right. But it was a Levitt's other story. [01:06:37] Speaker B: Yeah. [01:06:37] Speaker A: Anyway. But he did kill, like, so. So Levitz as a writer has killed Superman and Batman. Very few people can say they've done that. So. And I'm trying to distract myself because this is. [01:06:54] Speaker B: I know it's sad, dude. It is. [01:06:57] Speaker A: Well, it's also. It's also historically sad. Here. Let's get through the story and I can talk the finish and I can talk about that. [01:07:03] Speaker B: Okay. [01:07:04] Speaker A: They get back together and in the epilogue. Levitz loves epilogues, by the way. I've seen him have three or four at the end of a story before because he has all those subplots. [01:07:16] Speaker B: Yeah. [01:07:17] Speaker A: This time we're just getting one. And that's the funeral. So everybody's getting together and Brainiac 5 says, Strange, I've only just realized this also. This is also the end of time travel, at least as we know it. Strange, I didn't think. Strange to think I didn't find a way to our past after all. [01:07:38] Speaker B: Ah. [01:07:39] Speaker A: And this is Cosmic Boy back again. You'll find another way through, Brainy. So same as the through play before that was happening in the story. And for those of people that don't know, Cosmic Boy was the first Legion leader. And then later on, Giffen would use Cosmic Boy again in the five years later Legion to be like the basically like stalwart leader character. So I love that there are some threads for that. Like, it didn't just appear out of nowhere and then background. And then the. The. The least likely leader, Polar Boy, shows back up. Polar Bear, he says, we lost one today. Legionnaires. The best of us. And somehow, someday soon, we're going to find out if an immortal can die in return. [01:08:26] Speaker B: Damn, dude. That means he's going after the Time Trapper Keeper. [01:08:31] Speaker A: Yeah. Well, that's dark though, too. It is dark for a Legion book. I mean, it's. And then we get a beautiful. Yeah. Spread. But yeah, I think, you know, one of the things you talk about these books and really burn. Messing with the universe. I think one of the annoying things to me about this is this is the end of the Legion. [01:09:03] Speaker B: I read as you knew it. Yeah, Yeah. [01:09:06] Speaker A: I mean, I read all the other ones and I can tell you all about them, but it gets dark. You know, you get after this story, you have story where you have a story where basically chameleon boy and Colossal Boy gets hurt, but Chameleon boy goes out to. Really, Greg, that wasn't me. [01:09:36] Speaker B: And I didn't send you anything. [01:09:38] Speaker A: Chameleon boy goes. [01:09:39] Speaker B: I did not send you anything. Don't be blaming me for whatever got sent to you. [01:09:43] Speaker A: I can see that you sent me something. [01:09:45] Speaker B: I did. I sent you something a long time ago. [01:09:48] Speaker A: Yeah, well, maybe it just got to my phone. Oh, God. [01:09:52] Speaker B: That took forever. That was like 20 minutes. [01:09:57] Speaker A: So the Chameleon boy and Colossal Boy. Colossal Boy gets hurt. Chameleon boy goes off and tries to infiltrate, like, a big criminal organization on his own. And then you have this big conspiracy storyline where some of the legionnaires are trying to go kill the time trapper and. Which is, you know, just kind of antithetical to the whole ethos. Right. Which is why they don't kill. Big conspiracy storyline. [01:10:27] Speaker B: And. Yeah. [01:10:30] Speaker A: I mean, it just. [01:10:31] Speaker B: They don't. [01:10:32] Speaker A: What. What do you. From this point forward, what do you do with one of your bestselling. And now we said not best selling, but at the $50 price. I know the books cost a little bit more to make the quality books, but at the $50 price point, teen Titans, New Teen Titans, the Legion are still profitable books. [01:10:52] Speaker B: Right. [01:10:53] Speaker A: And you've got it buying them. You've gutted the core of the book. [01:10:57] Speaker B: Yeah. You take. You've taken away a. A giant hook, a major character, something that people come to on a pretty regular basis to read about. And. [01:11:10] Speaker A: And you've isolated the Legion. From a writer's perspective, might have been great. Right. You've isolated them now. Now you can basically do whatever you want. Theoretically. They're in their own universe right now. [01:11:23] Speaker B: You can kill any member you want to. Oh, no. I mean, yeah. [01:11:27] Speaker A: But the. The challenge with that is. The challenge with that is also there's no hook back to. [01:11:36] Speaker B: Back to Earth, back to that time frame. [01:11:40] Speaker A: And so, you know you're not going to have a crossover, right? [01:11:43] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah. [01:11:44] Speaker A: And they do eventually have crossovers again, but you're not Gonna have a crossover for a while. Also weird. Weirdly enough. How do you explain this? Who is see the statues back there of all the dead legionnaires? [01:11:59] Speaker B: Yeah. [01:12:00] Speaker A: Yeah. There's one Supergirl with a headband back there. [01:12:05] Speaker B: Yeah. [01:12:06] Speaker A: Well, how do you have Supergirl back there if they never went back in time to that universe? [01:12:11] Speaker B: Oh, snap. Oh, this is a lie. [01:12:18] Speaker A: I don't know what it is, but it's steak. I mean, I think it's a good story. I think, I think, you know, it's a good story. I think Levitz tries to make chicken salad out of editorial chicken shit. [01:12:33] Speaker B: Damn. [01:12:37] Speaker A: I mean, this is the best way I can say it. I mean, it's, it's a good single story. It pulls your emotions. [01:12:44] Speaker B: It transpired over multiple books and brought it that, that line together. [01:12:51] Speaker A: Well, here's the thing though, too. What would have been better knowing. Because we did these two at the same time, right? [01:12:58] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah. [01:12:59] Speaker A: If we had just done three Legion issues and got rid of these, kept the same art and creative team. [01:13:08] Speaker B: Yeah, [01:13:12] Speaker A: probably better. [01:13:14] Speaker B: Probably. But at the same point, you would have been missing out on something. [01:13:19] Speaker A: Well, if you're getting rid of the Legion, though, away from the Superman ethos, why bring them into the Superman book at all? I mean, like you're literally saying in action, in the action book, basically saying it's a. Superman's leaving to go back to the real universe. [01:13:34] Speaker B: It's a Goodbye Superman. [01:13:35] Speaker A: Yeah, to say goodbye. Right. So why not just cancel the book the next week? [01:13:39] Speaker B: Well, I mean, because you want to be able to say goodbye for fan service, for, for the people that are reading it, so they understand, so they know it's like the end of a season of a TV show. Even if you can't give. Even if it's. If it's supposed to be 12 episodes and you can only give it six, you want that sixth episode to end on a good note, or at least on a wrap up, or at least on something that's not going to make you wonder. [01:14:04] Speaker A: Right. [01:14:04] Speaker B: You want it to, you want it to end well, is what I'm saying. [01:14:09] Speaker A: And I guess. But at the same time, they've gutted the book. So if the, if the inspiration for the Legion of Superheroes is that Superboy was a great hero as a youth and then they wanted to be youth, kid superheroes, then this. [01:14:24] Speaker B: He's going to put away his childish things and become a man. [01:14:28] Speaker A: Right. I mean, ultimately too. How does this. You know, and if they're, if they're part of the main timeline Right. So Time Trapper says, no, this was never your past. Right. Yeah, but they were inspired by that past. How do you get past this? [01:14:46] Speaker B: How do you get past that past? [01:14:48] Speaker A: How do you get past. How do you get past that past? Right. The Legion of Superheroes is inspired by. [01:14:54] Speaker B: By a past that never existed. [01:14:56] Speaker A: Existed. A false. And even if. And even if you say, well, I created this pocket universe for you to go to when you went through time, but what happened before that? Wibbly, wobbly, timey wimey. I know, but you never. You never get out of that whole thing at the Legion. The Legion was created because they were inspired by, I mean, Superman or Superman as a boy, which would be Superboy. And I mean, and that. And that was. And that was R.J. brand's region reason. You know, the retcon was. That was RJ Brand's reason for bringing them together. Right. Was when they saved him on the shuttle. And then he goes, well, there was a Superboy of the past, and I want you to be like that. Right. It was the whole inspiration for him to give money. [01:15:40] Speaker B: Who's to say that that that reasoning or the idea that they were provided wasn't good enough to make them better than what they were when they weren't? And, I mean, it's not like we don't see that with people rewriting their own histories and stories because of events or whatever, that they need that to. To make them in real life become that person they want to be. So who's to say that that's bad when that is reality? Right. You know, so, I mean, if it's [01:16:22] Speaker A: a reality, then it's. [01:16:24] Speaker B: If. If it pulls from reality is what I'm saying, then what's. Who's to say that that's not positive enforcement for good story writing? [01:16:36] Speaker A: Well, and to further complicate matters. Yes. In the. In the letter page, enels and Bridwell, 1931-1987. Former Legion writer, longtime LSH assistant editor, Guardian of the flames of the continuity. Oh, boy. 30th century and creator of the White Witch. Well, passed away recently after a long illness associated with the Superman titles for when he joined the staff in 1965. Until a few months before his death, Nelson always harbored a special fondness for the legionnaires, many of whose names he had created for text pages while they appeared in Adventure Comics. A generous man with his time and his talent, and one as pure as the purest of heroes he wrote about, he will be missed by many of his friends. The timing of of his death in relation to the editorial changes at DC with Superman. [01:17:27] Speaker B: Yeah. [01:17:29] Speaker A: And this, you know, it was just, it was a death knell to a lot of this Silver Age stuff. And he, I mean, admittedly came in, in the middle of, in 1965. [01:17:37] Speaker B: Yeah. [01:17:38] Speaker A: But it's just, it's, it's, it's sad. It's double sad because Superboy's dying in the book, but you're also killing off an era. There's also the Alan Moore. Is it Alan Moore or is it Grant Morrison? I think it was Alan Moore. It was Alan Moore. The. Whatever happened to the man of Tomorrow? The two parter that ended off the Silver Age too. [01:18:05] Speaker B: The Moving it forward. [01:18:07] Speaker A: Whatever happened to the man of Tomorrow? It's. It was a crossover between regular Superman book and action. And it's just, especially when you read it now, it makes it extra sad because. And now you. I think you said it best when you were saying about a season ending, but this is more like. Not just a season ending, but this is like a show ending. [01:18:26] Speaker B: Yeah. [01:18:28] Speaker A: And then you say, well, what do I watch next? Yeah, and eventually I'm watching. [01:18:34] Speaker B: Eventually I'm watching super Dark Conversion [01:18:41] Speaker A: with people murdering. [01:18:44] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah, yeah. [01:18:46] Speaker A: Each other. You know, we've talked about it. I need to talk when I'm facing the microphone. We've talked about it before. You know, that shift from. That shift from a bright comics to these really dark comics and is what it is. And that's why comics history can be fun. But for me, sometimes as a reader, it can also be sad because the end of, of this time frame and. Well, you pointed out on many occasions that maybe the end of that time frame was good. You know, we get rid of racism in comics. Right? We get rid of. Well, I shouldn't say that we don't get rid of racism in comics. [01:19:26] Speaker B: We don't get rid of it. But we, we move. [01:19:29] Speaker A: We move, we attack. We, we move. We creators are allowed to fundamentally attack racism in comics. Raid. [01:19:36] Speaker B: Make some changes. [01:19:38] Speaker A: Comics, they're allowed to attack sexism. Right. They're allowed to make changes. At the same time we get amplification of characters that I really don't want. Like, I know obviously the Punisher was invented in the seventies. Sorry, Garth Ennis. But like, yes, you know, you made the super Dark there in the 90s with that character. Well, I mean, now we now. And now we've got a movie I'm not going to watch because, you know, they make one of the main characters somebody that just murders people with guns. And it's like, that's. That, you know, that doesn't mean I won't read a story where people are murdering people with guns or people are blowing up. But I don't want that in my Spider man stories. [01:20:22] Speaker B: I know we've had this talk before, like, it just off the show, but in my. My take on. On it. My take on it is, is you can watch it or not, but at the same point, I mean, they do interact. [01:20:34] Speaker A: I'm not going to pay for it, that's for damn sure. [01:20:36] Speaker B: Well, yeah, they interact in the books. And at least this interaction is a. An interaction in which you've got a Spider man sticking to his Spider man morals or. Or ideals. And Spider man is like, hey, you know, we don't have to. We. We're both trying to do things, but we don't have to do it that way. [01:21:05] Speaker A: Yeah. And. And if we're entering. And to your point, if we're introducing that original Spider Man Punisher concept to a new generation and, you know, we're trying to teach that lesson, that's great. And all. However, the same thing I said about Harlequin, right? [01:21:25] Speaker B: Yeah. [01:21:26] Speaker A: And, you know, Harlequin evolves, evolves, evolves, evolves, evolves. And then we have to make Joker part do or Harley Quinn is back to being Harley Quinn. She was in the cartoon where she's just a lackey for the Joker. [01:21:41] Speaker B: Yeah. [01:21:41] Speaker A: And. And it's like we don't need that [01:21:45] Speaker B: version anymore when we forget that she is a. A doctor and someone who has done all these things in her regular world life before she became Harlequin. [01:22:07] Speaker A: And I don't think you can. And that's the thing. And I don't think the genie's out of the bottle with the character. You've done all these things with that character. Same with Punisher, when Punisher is a symbol for the militia. Right. I can't put the genie back in the fucking bottle and go back and just say, I know. [01:22:26] Speaker B: Oh, I know. [01:22:27] Speaker A: Oh, now we're going to have this conversation about whether heroes should be this way or this way. [01:22:32] Speaker B: Yeah. [01:22:32] Speaker A: Right. The character has evolved over time. If this movie came out in 1980, we'd be having a very different discussion about it. [01:22:41] Speaker B: Yeah. [01:22:42] Speaker A: But it did not. Right. And when the Punisher symbol is on the clothes of the people who want to murder me and string me up on a fence that I don't want to watch in a movie. [01:22:53] Speaker B: I know. [01:22:54] Speaker A: I'm sorry if I'm getting too angry. [01:22:55] Speaker B: No. And I'm Not. [01:22:56] Speaker A: But that is not something that I have any interest in viewing. Norton. You know, I haven't watched any of the Punisher TV shows, even though somebody told me it was. I think you or somebody else told me it's good. [01:23:08] Speaker B: I've seen. I've seen a couple. I haven't watched the whole. [01:23:11] Speaker A: And they're writing him in a way that. Yes. Supposed to be, like, against the Nazis. [01:23:18] Speaker B: It's not. Yeah, it's not. It's not in the same vein of some of the. Like, even in the movies that have been out in the past, there's not there. It's done. It's done in a good. It's done in a way that is fathomable. It's done in a. In a smart way. [01:23:40] Speaker A: But why keep bringing back this fucking character? [01:23:45] Speaker B: I understand your question, but I think the deeper thing is that you can't not tell certain stories without certain characters, which is unfortunate. And because he's woven into so many different portions. [01:24:09] Speaker A: You need to tell me. With all the history of Spider man and all the different characters and all the moral dilemmas Spider man has faced throughout the entire history of the Spider man book, they couldn't write a different movie with a different villain. [01:24:20] Speaker B: They could have written a different movie with a different villain. But when you know how Civil War goes. When you know how other things go. [01:24:30] Speaker A: Oh, God. [01:24:31] Speaker B: I'm just saying. I mean, I'm not. [01:24:33] Speaker A: I. I am Mark Miller's abomination of the comic industry. You want to talk about shitty parts of the comic history, Civil War is a great start. [01:24:44] Speaker B: I'm. I'm not. I'm just talking about transition points, stories that are out there that have driven the genesis of certain character connections in which you might not appreciate, which. Which a majority of people don't. Which is totally cool. I get it. But they definitely. It's one of those things where it's like, well, they're all there. They all interconnect. And at a point you have is. Unless you just like you said, if you're gonna just wreck. If you're just like you said with Superman, what are you gonna do? Write out one character completely because you don't like this aspect of it? I mean, well. [01:25:35] Speaker A: And there are a lot of people that are going to be really critical of the Supergirl movie because they don't like Super Girl Woman or Super Girl Woman of Tomorrow. Yeah. By Tom King. They didn't like that maxi series. And that's what that movie is going to be based off of. Right. [01:25:48] Speaker B: And by Then you have people that are really going to like it because you need to tell a story that is that from that perspective and those in that. From those eyes in which you have a Supergirl who has watched her whole entire world get destroyed and has to come to terms with it. [01:26:09] Speaker A: Yes, well, and, and, and, and, and again, like. So let's, let's assume. Let's for sake of argument. Yeah, assume. And then I'll, I'll jump off this because we'll have to end the podcast eventually. But let's assume for sake of argument. I think we can make a lot of arguments about what is. But let's assume for sake of argument, obviously. Dark Knight Returns, Watchmen, a pivotal point in comics. Right. When the industry changes. Civil War is another pivotal point when the industry changes. That includes Disney purchasing Marvel. Right? Where Marvel just begins to rehash shit over and over again, right? Rehash, rehash, rehash, rehash, rehash. That doesn't mean there isn't some good writing and good art in there, you know, that doesn't mean that Mac Matt Fraction is also all of a sudden a bad writer. That doesn't mean Gail Simone is all of a sudden a bad writer. That doesn't mean that Dan Slott is also all of a sudden a bad writer. Yeah, but what we are. What I'm saying, it does mean Brian Michael Bendis is. Anyway, but all joking aside. But if that's a turning point, right, if that's a pivotal point, I mean, where's Mark Miller? Not at Marvel anymore. Right. Mark Miller tries to create his own universe and not failed. Miller, this. I tried to do a pun on words there. [01:27:34] Speaker B: Yeah. [01:27:34] Speaker A: It didn't work. But like, that didn't work. Right, Right. And so Mark Miller. That doesn't make mean Mark Miller is a bad writer either. I just don't like Civil War. Let's say Civil War is a turning point for that. Right? [01:27:47] Speaker B: Right. [01:27:48] Speaker A: What has that done to Marvel? DC outsold Marvel last year. Yeah, I mean, it was a long time coming. It's been 20 years. Well, 16 years. [01:28:01] Speaker B: And the weird thing is, is like, I mean, like, when you think about it, DCR is outsold, outsells Marvel. It's been, it's been long time coming. 20 years. [01:28:10] Speaker A: DC hasn't sold Marvel since the 70s. [01:28:12] Speaker B: I think, personally, I prefer the DC movies. I watch more DC movies than I watch Marvel movies, which is a surprise [01:28:22] Speaker A: because growing up with Marvel, movies were good. [01:28:25] Speaker B: I, I know. And I grew up, I grew up reading, reading all that Stuff and all the base material. So you would have. Think. Would have thought that I would have watched all that stuff. But I've. I've spent more time actually watching and enjoying the DC movies, even the bad ones. And there are a few stinkers out there. [01:28:47] Speaker A: There certainly are. But I like the source material is better, though, of the ones that are really good. [01:28:53] Speaker B: Yeah. [01:28:54] Speaker A: Like, if you talk about the source material. That, that, that. And while James Gunn. I mean, he. I liked Guardians a lot, too, and I've. [01:29:05] Speaker B: And I've watched those movies. [01:29:08] Speaker A: The. But I think, like, if you look at the source material, too, they allowed Tom King to do something different with Supergirl. Right, right. And write a story and. And then they're gonna base the movie off that story. Yeah. And you may not like that story, and that's okay because it's not your Supergirl. Yeah. [01:29:25] Speaker B: But you might like the 1980s Supergirl, and that's fine, too. [01:29:29] Speaker A: I should. I like that. I would not say this yet. I need to watch the movie, obviously. But if we compare the two female empowerment movies. [01:29:38] Speaker B: Huh? [01:29:39] Speaker A: Like, if you compare The Marvels, the Ms. Marvel and our Captain Marvel. [01:29:45] Speaker B: Sorry. Okay. [01:29:46] Speaker A: And then Marvel's. And you compare that to the Supergirl movie. Let's. Let's wait until June. We need to watch it. And then compare and say which one is. And honestly, it's not our opinion that matters. Yeah, but what is. What is. What is better? We're not the target audience. But what is better? Right. What is more of an empowerment movie? Like, somebody, like, dealing with her planet blowing up and going through the universe on an age of discovery, you know, or somebody who gets powers and is blowing shit up. [01:30:18] Speaker B: Well, I mean, I can tell you from a standpoint of what my wife enjoyed comic. Yeah, but what my wife enjoys and, you know, reading a handful of Wonder Woman books because, like, actual superhero books were not her thing, but, like, she enjoyed the Wonder Woman and Wonder Woman 84. Like, you know, just from a movie, watching a movie, going. [01:30:42] Speaker A: Experience. Right. I thought Wonder Woman 84 was awful. [01:30:46] Speaker B: But you would, from your standpoint of someone who's read the books and the source material. Of course you would. Maxwell Lord, not a good character. [01:30:56] Speaker A: No, but I have a kid. He would never have a kid. That was. That was the. But. [01:31:02] Speaker B: But from. [01:31:03] Speaker A: In that universe, he has a kid, though. [01:31:05] Speaker B: But for her watching that movie, she enjoyed it because it was a. It was a good movie. Yeah. You know. [01:31:15] Speaker A: Well, and that's. That's just it, right? That's just it. I mean, While Wonder Woman 84, I'm gonna argue, was not a good movie. Different. Just. I know a lot. [01:31:25] Speaker B: If you like watching a movie in which a character turns into a Mighty Morphin Power Ranger, that shouldn't turn into a Mighty Morphin Power Ranger. This is a movie for you. I totally enjoy that kind of thing because I like the Mighty Morphin Power Rangers just as much as I like the Wonder Woman. [01:31:42] Speaker A: Yeah. [01:31:42] Speaker B: So. And you put those two things in a movie, and it's fantastic. I mean, I even yelled out Mighty Morphin Power Rangers as soon as I was like, she turned into a Zord, for crying out loud. So [01:31:58] Speaker A: that's fair. [01:31:59] Speaker B: I mean, it was fair. [01:32:00] Speaker A: Even. [01:32:01] Speaker B: Even Anne said she turned into a Zord. She thought she was like, are these. [01:32:04] Speaker A: Is this a crossover? [01:32:05] Speaker B: I don't know about. [01:32:09] Speaker A: That is funny. [01:32:11] Speaker B: What happens so. [01:32:13] Speaker A: Well, I should stop cussing and yelling about comics. But, yeah, my emotions get riled up with this. They do, I think, like, and they should, because it's a sad story, but it is. The other part is [01:32:28] Speaker B: that wrote a letter for this book. [01:32:32] Speaker A: I mean, we can. We can look. I don't know. They did think so. TM Maple. [01:32:37] Speaker B: TM Maple. [01:32:39] Speaker A: Is there a TM Maple letter? Okay, this is the longest pot. We're trying to set the record for our longest podcast again. [01:32:44] Speaker B: I'm gonna die. [01:32:45] Speaker A: We probably should wrap this up. You're gonna die. We need to do this. Is there a TM Maple in here? [01:32:49] Speaker B: There is. [01:32:49] Speaker A: Please tell me there's. Oh, God. Somebody. Oh, there is. Of course. Somebody should really collect all the TM Maple letters. [01:32:56] Speaker B: They should collect all the TM Maple letters. Listeners out there, if someone out there wants to do that and put it together in a zine, that would be fantastic. [01:33:07] Speaker A: Yeah. Oh, this letter is just complimenting them on a freaking awesome story they wrote. So. Yeah. [01:33:12] Speaker B: Which is fantastic. [01:33:14] Speaker A: Well, the story run before this, that Universal Universo Project story was a really good. [01:33:20] Speaker B: Yeah. [01:33:22] Speaker A: So good stuff. It's. It was. It was. It's really good. But anyway. Well, on that note, probably a good time to wrap this up. Look, you know, if you like the Punisher, awesome. But if you're a right wing Nazi jackass and you like the Punisher, then go away. [01:33:43] Speaker B: Yeah. [01:33:44] Speaker A: Not mad at people that like the Punisher as a comic book. But. But I just. [01:33:49] Speaker B: Other folks can. [01:33:51] Speaker A: The history of the care. I mean, just the way what the characters become in the symbol, it's just what. [01:33:56] Speaker B: What it symbolizes. Not that the character hasn't become that. [01:34:00] Speaker A: Like, I'm not. [01:34:00] Speaker B: It's what, it's what it. Because has. Has become as. [01:34:05] Speaker A: But that's from, that's from how the character was written though, too. You can't just. [01:34:10] Speaker B: Was it. [01:34:11] Speaker A: You can't just. Yes. You cannot just, you cannot just. Well, anyway, I mean, I don't think you can. I just don't think the two can be separated. I'm not gonna fly a Stars and Bar flag behind me and claim it's for states rights either. Fair. Right. [01:34:31] Speaker B: Fair. But I mean, I, I, I'm not [01:34:33] Speaker A: gonna put one of the Snake flags behind me, a Gadson flag, and be like, yeah, I just want smaller government. [01:34:43] Speaker B: I find it funny that the people [01:34:45] Speaker A: that maybe I could have done that [01:34:46] Speaker B: before, I feel that the, the people that do that and they don't understand yet. I mean, that that's not what they're. What they're, what they're proponents of are two different things because, and I'm not [01:34:57] Speaker A: going to put the Punisher symbol up anywhere, on a uniform, anywhere in a comic, whatever, and claim that those two things can be separated. They can no longer, they're no longer separable. They're, they're inexorably linked and you can't get rid of them anymore. [01:35:12] Speaker B: I, I'm not saying that. I'm just saying that I don't think that they were, they, they weren't. They did not begin that way. [01:35:20] Speaker A: They did not begin that way. It wasn't, but that wasn't. The intent is now. And this is now, and this is when the movie was made. So they, if, again, if they made the movie in 1980, we wouldn't even be having this discussion. We'd be like, oh, here's this. Oh, I think there's this thing where this next military man goes crazy and starts shooting people and he made the [01:35:42] Speaker B: Movie bad guys 10 years ago. [01:35:44] Speaker A: Spider man different maybe. [01:35:48] Speaker B: Yeah, 15 years ago. [01:35:50] Speaker A: Fifteen. I'll give you. [01:35:51] Speaker B: Yeah, 15 years ago. For sure. Maybe 20 for sure. 20 for sure. [01:35:57] Speaker A: 20 for sure. Yeah. But I mean, again, it's just, that's, that's my issue with it. And so, and again, as long as we're talking about things that are inexorably linked, right? You know, you've got Superman should be linked to the Legion, and they're rebuilding that in those books. In the books now. [01:36:12] Speaker B: Change. Dan, you just said it, you just said things change sometimes. [01:36:16] Speaker A: Well, things do change, but right now, [01:36:18] Speaker B: that's exactly what the writers of Superman and the Legion thought at that time, that things change, that they believe that Superman needed to leave the Legion. Superman needed to die. [01:36:30] Speaker A: That was Super Boy needed. That was John Byrne and the editors at DC Comics. [01:36:35] Speaker B: Yes, I know it's a tough. It's a tough thing to accept that things change. [01:36:42] Speaker A: Yeah, it changed for the worst. [01:36:44] Speaker B: So I didn't say it changed for the best. I just said they change. [01:36:48] Speaker A: Well, anyway, as long as you're trying to troll me. [01:36:51] Speaker B: I'm trying to. Oh, God. I'm not trying to troll you. It's just what we do here at FUNNY before. [01:36:56] Speaker A: Sometimes we could wrap this up. [01:36:57] Speaker B: Sometimes we agree, sometimes we don't. [01:36:59] Speaker A: We've spent so much time talking about comics. [01:37:03] Speaker B: I know, I know, it's crazy. We have talked about comics so much. [01:37:06] Speaker A: This time we haven't even talked about like the Squatch. A man who kidnapped you. Oh, he did not. [01:37:12] Speaker B: We can't say he kidnapped me because [01:37:14] Speaker A: we did at the beginning. [01:37:15] Speaker B: Listen. No, no, no. [01:37:17] Speaker A: I had a time. [01:37:18] Speaker B: I said you need to. [01:37:20] Speaker A: On the next episode at work, you [01:37:22] Speaker B: can go find my Instagram, post my story that. That talked about how he did me. [01:37:27] Speaker A: We're cutting this off, but yeah. So no Jujitsu Lawyer Paul this episode. No Retro emporium this episode. [01:37:33] Speaker B: None of those places. [01:37:34] Speaker A: No, no. It's raining cyborgs. The Alex cacophony. Alex rain coming out on Kickstarter soon. [01:37:44] Speaker B: None of this. [01:37:44] Speaker A: None of that. This episode. We. We are. We are hour and 37 minutes in of comic Con. [01:37:49] Speaker B: Nobody wants to listen to that. [01:37:51] Speaker A: Nobody does. But for those one listener that will. We love you. And let us know. Let us know what you think of the Punisher. Let us know what you think of the Superman changes. Let us know what you think is going on in current comics. And if there's something you want us to read. And I'm sure somebody will ask us to read something with Godzilla in it. [01:38:08] Speaker B: Oh, that'd be amazing. That's a change up that we could have. [01:38:13] Speaker A: All right, I'm done. Bye bye, everybody.