Funny Book Forensics 361 Cap Wolf is Not in the House

[00:00:01] Speaker A: Yeah, okay. It's doing what it's supposed to now, okay? Computo attacked my audacity and the audacity. [00:00:08] Speaker B: Of Computo and your audacity. [00:00:11] Speaker A: I wish Computo would have attacked this comic. [00:00:14] Speaker B: Well, it couldn't. Cause this comic is so full of amazing characters off the top. [00:00:21] Speaker A: Name three. [00:00:22] Speaker B: Name three. I mean, you got cap, you got. You got Iron Man's in there. You got. You got black widow, you got the search for John Jameson because, you know, you don't even know he's. He's in the book. [00:00:38] Speaker A: You just don't explain something to me, please, all right? Just explain something to me. [00:00:44] Speaker B: What? [00:00:45] Speaker A: Yeah. So how did Captain America get keep his powers? Because, like. Well, I guess we should talk about the COVID You know what? You talk about the COVID because I got to take care of something. [00:01:01] Speaker B: Okay. Okay. I'll talk about the COVID while you go take a big, major poop. So Dan's got to take a poop. Just joking, people. He does not. He's got to go. He's doing something with the dogs right now. So, anyways, on this cover, we got Captain America, we got a big old werewolf. There's a man who looks like he's been torn up from head to toe. There's a big full moon, and we're talking a werewolf's full moon because this werewolf's got no clothes on. And it almost looks like the man that's been attacked by this werewolf has a real thin stretch of clothes, too. Cap looks like he's crying. And the little cap in the corner is also crying, too. Man and wolf, part one of six. [00:01:54] Speaker A: Is that what he looks like when he's crying? I've got dogs crying. [00:01:57] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:01:57] Speaker A: So I don't. I don't know what to do. [00:01:59] Speaker B: It looks. I mean, it looks like he's a crying cap. You know, in the search for John Jameson, it literally. It looks like he is crying because he's seeing such devastation, and he doesn't know what to do to me. [00:02:14] Speaker A: He looks stunned. [00:02:15] Speaker B: Well, yeah, stunned because, you know, he's. He's. He's stunned and he's crying. Maybe he's crying on the inside. Dan, we don't know what Cap's going through. Cap's gone through a lot. And, I mean, this book picks up literally just. I mean, maybe months right after the last in, like, incurrence we had with cap himself after. [00:02:36] Speaker A: I mean, diamond back has been put on trial and stuff. There's all sorts of. But, like, all sorts of things that have happened but. But. Explain. Like, I thought Cap lost his. His. He quit taking steroids, so he's no. [00:02:52] Speaker B: Longer on the juice. He's. He's. He's. He's not. He decided. He's not sniff sniffing and doing stuff. He's. He's no longer. What? Huh? What? Voices? [00:03:04] Speaker A: Well, this is Captain America number 402. Early July, 1992. Apparently, we're going with a Captain America book every two weeks because. Why not? They're so fantastic. You should keep those rolling. I'm sure they were big sellers. They were not. This is. [00:03:26] Speaker B: I was buying them. [00:03:28] Speaker A: Well, I'm sorry. We get two stories for the price of one, which I think this, too. I know they tried this. I guess. I mean, DC did it, too, so. I don't know, implicate Marvel. But they would put two books out a month, but not have enough story for the whole book. So they'd give you a backup story in every book, which we saw when we read the Captain America drug issues. So. Yeah, I mean, that's where we're going to get here, I guess, for a while. For the duration, we get one main story and one backup story. However, last time we thought the backup stories were the better stories. At first, yeah. And then both stories became terrible. [00:04:09] Speaker B: You know, I read this issue and I liked both stories. I'm gonna just say right off the jump, and I know what your feelings are right now, but I'm gonna tell you. Both of them were that good right there. I will put my money, my dollar 25 in the. [00:04:32] Speaker A: My feelings are for this story. I needed a silver bullet and a mongoose. Jeez. [00:04:41] Speaker B: Wow. Oh, boy. You needed a silver bullet. Wait, like a. Like a. Like a coarse silver bullet or like a. Like you need. [00:04:50] Speaker A: No, like one that you shoot from a gun and then a mongoose. [00:04:54] Speaker B: Okay. Okay. And. Yeah. Okay. Got it. [00:04:59] Speaker A: Yeah. But, you know, we're here. I mean, it's. You know, it's inevitable. Well, we're gonna turn the page here and we've got. So here's why I was confused. Cause I read this thing and it still says Steve Rogers. Born in the USA, raised to cherish the ideals of democracy, endowed, yes, with a superhuman physique, which he was not. [00:05:24] Speaker B: No. [00:05:24] Speaker A: And driven to be the most capable combatant in the world. Now, as both lone crusader and leader of the renowned Avengers, he fights the ongoing battle for liberty, justice, and the american dream. So, like, is this like the 1992 Hulk HOgan that's losing to Yokozuna that's off the gas and shrunk drastically? Cause I'm not seeing that. Or is this the 1996 Hulk Hogan who's in the nWo, who's on the gas, who is not Terry Boleya, but is Hulk Hogan? And we've just forgotten about the whole fact that he doesn't use steroids now, right? Because, like, how did he get a superhuman physique if in the last story he got it from the super soldier serum? But then we decided that was steroids, so then he couldn't have it. And so I. Maybe I'm still holding a grudge about that because he's, he. He was not endowed with the superhuman physique. In fact, the entire base of the character is that he was a tiny man who they gave a serum to. [00:06:28] Speaker B: And then he got big and. [00:06:30] Speaker A: Yes, this is dumb. Hey, brother, I'm already mad. [00:06:34] Speaker B: I think what you. [00:06:35] Speaker A: Before we even start, brother, like, I think it doesn't make any sense. [00:06:39] Speaker B: I think you need to calm down there. [00:06:42] Speaker A: It doesn't make any sense. Like, it literally just doesn't make any sense. The book should have ended when we read the last issue of the book because he's not a superhero anymore. He's like. [00:06:53] Speaker B: And he's Spider man. [00:06:54] Speaker A: He's Captain Murica. He's just Captain Murica now. They took away the a. [00:06:58] Speaker B: He should have just, like, spider man to suit in a garbage can. Walked away all sad in the rain and then jumped in. [00:07:03] Speaker A: You might as well just be walking around with a fucking maGa hat on thinking he, like, actually loves America but doesn't like what the hell is happening. [00:07:10] Speaker B: You took it a step further. I was gonna just say jumped in a lifted pickup truck and just drove around the balls. [00:07:17] Speaker A: Yeah. Well, for this gem of a book, we have Mark Grunwald writing it. And, you know, I feel like whenever we do Mark Grenwald. Cause he died like, four years later, and then I'm, like, hating on everything he does. Now what I am gonna say before we get started in this book is he has improved as a script writer from the perspective that there are not as many words on the pages as there were in the previous books. [00:07:46] Speaker B: I flew through this one and the second book, like, boom, boom. Right away. [00:07:50] Speaker A: Yeah, we have Rick Levins penciling. He's. Now this is a guy who will highlight some of the art. But, you know, all this was. Well, he did some things before. Yeah, he did some things before, but not many, even though he'd been around a while. But he had done a bunch of stuff for valiant. And I know he does that later. My bad. He did some stuff for earlier, actually. It was in the eighties. He worked on some character called Firefly, I think, and some book called Femme Force. So this is one of those times when they decided to. They lost all their artists. Right. They all went to image. [00:08:40] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:08:42] Speaker A: So they decided to raid the indies for new artists. [00:08:45] Speaker B: I see. [00:08:46] Speaker A: And we can discuss how effective that was as we go through Danny Bolognati, who was the inker before, when we were reading cap Joe Rosen on letters. Gina going, is the colorist. Ralph Macchio should have stayed at Cobra Kai instead of editing because, like, based on what we read before, he doesn't really actually edit these books. And then Tom DeFalco is the editor in chief. Yes. Tom DeFaco, you did destroy Marvel Comics clone war. Yeah. Spider clone. Okay, so, all right, so anyway, yeah, but I thought Jim shooter destroyed Marvel comics. Like, how many editors in chief destroyed Marvel comics? [00:09:28] Speaker B: It was. I would say it was a multiple person job. They took. It took many cooks in that kitchen. [00:09:42] Speaker A: But we're not talking about jobbers until we see the mystic in this book. [00:09:50] Speaker B: Oh, my gosh. Oh, wow. Yeah. I was like, oh, hey, no surprise. No surprise. [00:09:59] Speaker A: Yeah. So we'll get there. Yeah. Okay. Yeah, we will get there. [00:10:07] Speaker B: There's been a couple moments in this book where I was excited and then let down, but then again, I'm just along for the ride. I'm having fun in this 402. [00:10:19] Speaker A: Trying. [00:10:19] Speaker B: To get to a 409. 409. [00:10:22] Speaker A: Okay, well, let's go. We got some amazing dialogue on this page. Huffington. Huff huff. Yeah. Huff huff huff. No, that's not what it says. [00:10:37] Speaker B: Yeah, I know. [00:10:38] Speaker A: It says, huff huff huff huff huff huff. And I'll blow your house down. [00:10:45] Speaker B: Okay. Yeah. No, no. Yeah, no. [00:10:49] Speaker A: Well, I mean, I row. All right, well, some dude is running in the woods. Is that John Jameson? Okay. Are you sure? [00:10:59] Speaker B: I don't think so. Doesn't look like him. [00:11:01] Speaker A: Okay, well, that's good. Just a dude in a flannel shirt. [00:11:07] Speaker B: Or a plaid shirt. [00:11:09] Speaker A: A werewolf grabs him and rips his thread out. Yeah, the prowling. [00:11:17] Speaker B: Oh, my gosh. [00:11:19] Speaker A: And then Wolverine finds the guy. Wolverine. And. Yeah, in fact, you know what? We went from, like, lots of script to no script. [00:11:27] Speaker B: Yeah. Boom, boom. [00:11:28] Speaker A: Yeah, Wolverine. Yeah. Why is. And then we get sniff. [00:11:35] Speaker B: Because he, who is in some stuff that looks like peanut butter, but it's not peanut butter. And he's, like, sniffing. [00:11:42] Speaker A: It looks like bean. It looks like bean juice, you know? Yeah, yeah. [00:11:46] Speaker B: It's kind of funny, and it's snippety. Sniff. Who. [00:11:50] Speaker A: Who is who is this guy? I have no idea who this guy is. [00:11:56] Speaker B: The red bearded dude. Who? [00:11:59] Speaker A: Demolition man? [00:12:01] Speaker B: I don't know. [00:12:03] Speaker A: Dennis Murph Dunphy, known as demolition man. Initially a wrestler turned superhero. [00:12:10] Speaker B: Yeah, he's lifting some heavy weights. Dan, could you. Could you keep up with them? [00:12:18] Speaker A: Well, yeah, I lifted 225 yesterday, so. Yeah. A benched. I should say so. I mean, I can't lift whatever lie they're doing. [00:12:29] Speaker B: Whatever lie they're doing. [00:12:31] Speaker A: Well, here's the bullshit piece of this, right? Like, Captain America is no longer on the super soldier serum, right? But the pulsating super soldier serum still in his body allows him to bench 1100 pounds. What? [00:12:47] Speaker B: That's a lot. [00:12:49] Speaker A: Why don't. Why don't, you know what? Talk about this page while I look up the world record for bench press. [00:12:54] Speaker B: Okay. Okay. So you've got these two facing off with a. With a bench press bench off, if you will. So they're bench pressing, and, you know, they have a little conversation, and cap's like, hey, I gotta go. I'm gonna go hit the jungle gym over there. I gotta talk to black widow. He's like, hey, Natasha, I wanna come up and join you. And she's like, oh, you wanna. You want to play in the jungle gym for a minute? He's like, no, no, I just want to talk. And she's like, well, why don't you just talk then, you know? Cause, like, I'm busy doing some stuff. [00:13:22] Speaker A: So she's still thoroughly annoying, as she was last time. Right. Okay, so the world record for bench press is 782.6 pounds. [00:13:32] Speaker B: Oh, okay. [00:13:34] Speaker A: So, yeah, I mean, I just like it. Just think. Details like this matter editor Ralph Macchio. Right? Like, you can't just write this drug storyline where he declares he's, like, steroid free and then be like, oh, well, I'm just casually throwing up 1100 pounds on the bench. [00:13:56] Speaker B: Well, he is, cap. He can do whatever. [00:14:01] Speaker A: Yeah. And what is this professional wrestler guy lifting? [00:14:04] Speaker B: Oh, like three. [00:14:06] Speaker A: Three k. Yeah. Like, I mean, he. [00:14:11] Speaker B: Like, 850. [00:14:15] Speaker A: So he's so 8850. So he is also almost 100 pounds over the world record bench press. [00:14:26] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:14:28] Speaker A: I mean, what are his powers again? [00:14:30] Speaker B: Strong and has an awesome beard. [00:14:33] Speaker A: And he's a wrestler. [00:14:34] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:14:35] Speaker A: He didn't always have an awesome beard. [00:14:36] Speaker B: That's true. Didn't. [00:14:40] Speaker A: Yeah. Well, I. You know what? I don't have time to figure out who this guy is, and they certainly don't tell us, so we must. We're supposed to know. [00:14:48] Speaker B: He's kind of quiet. That's the thing. That's what we find out is, like, he hasn't really said very much since he's been back from. He was stuck in the ice like calves. And that's what they share. They share this moment of being stuck in the ice. And the doctors are gonna check him out because they want to run some tests on him so he gets tested. [00:15:09] Speaker A: Well, okay. Well, then Captain America does, like, 5000 loop de loops. And remember where I said the pages didn't have much dialogue? [00:15:18] Speaker B: Yeah. This page right here is, like, chock full of dialogue because this is where. [00:15:24] Speaker A: We get the exposition. [00:15:25] Speaker B: Yeah. They carry on so much talk. [00:15:29] Speaker A: Where a little editor's box could have cleared this up, but that's fine, right? Anyway, they're having this guy checked out. They're trying to take care of him and. Good. Thank God Natasha is out of the story for the rest of the issue. [00:15:47] Speaker B: Wow. [00:15:48] Speaker A: Why do I hate this character so much? [00:15:49] Speaker B: You don't like the black widow? [00:15:52] Speaker A: Well, I feel like the streets of poison just, like, totally did it. [00:15:56] Speaker B: Just totally, totally tittering for you. [00:15:59] Speaker A: Yeah, maybe we came back too soon. I don't think I was ready. [00:16:02] Speaker B: We weren't ready, people. Dan is. Dan has been poisoned. [00:16:08] Speaker A: I mean, I was poisoned by whatever shit we read the last three episodes. [00:16:12] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:16:13] Speaker A: As well. So I'm already, like, not, like, enjoying life. I just want to curl up with a good comic book and read it. Now we're reading this. [00:16:20] Speaker B: Now we're reading this. This has become the podcast in which Danielle does. It's like, major, major disdain towards the comics we're reading. [00:16:29] Speaker A: I mean, I think we broke me. Like, this is. It's just so bad. And, wow, you're like, no, it's okay. [00:16:37] Speaker B: It's okay. [00:16:38] Speaker A: You're like, no, it's fine. [00:16:38] Speaker B: Well, it's a comic book. There's all the superheroes you like and love and some that you never heard of before, like this beard drinking beard. And we're gonna find out some more stuff. [00:16:49] Speaker A: Demolition man. I wonder why they had to write a character named demolition man out of a story right in the nineties. Is there some other. Yeah, yeah. Was there some other thing happening that demolition man. [00:17:00] Speaker B: Yeah. 1992 called a movie called Demolition man with Sylvester Stallone. [00:17:05] Speaker A: They go to good news. There's a lot. Yeah, there's other. There's other movie references in this comic, too. So we'll get there. Yeah, we'll get there. [00:17:13] Speaker B: It's all, well, very relevant. [00:17:16] Speaker A: Well, he goes and talks to Agent Carter, who's still known as Peggy at this time. And, yeah, all miss communicator lady, who in, as we found out in streets of poison, is really bad at her job. [00:17:30] Speaker B: She's gotten better, folks. [00:17:31] Speaker A: She's gotten better, apparently. Well, she gives him a rundown on some werewolf killings. [00:17:37] Speaker B: Whoa, werewolf killings? Are they killing werewolves or are they werewolves killing people? [00:17:43] Speaker A: Yeah, and they talk about something called the moon gem, and apparently Doctor Connors has it. Like what? So. [00:17:50] Speaker B: Doctor Connors? [00:17:51] Speaker A: Yeah, we're getting some spidey crossover here. We actually have a lot of spidey characters show up in this book. [00:17:56] Speaker B: A lot of spidey characters, maybe even Spidey. [00:17:58] Speaker A: And of course, John Jameson's been cap's running buddy, so they're besties. [00:18:02] Speaker B: They're buddies. They, you know. [00:18:04] Speaker A: Well, they. They're best. They're such good besties that he. You're gonna find a theme here is that apparently, like, he just has no idea where any of his friends are and doesn't bother to find out. Right. Like, he didn't bother to find out where the demolition man was. Now he's. He's like frozen. They're trying to fix him. They don't know where Diamondback is. He's asking Agent Carter about Diamondback. [00:18:25] Speaker B: Have you. We don't know where John is. Where's demolition man? Just got back. Diamondback's missing. Where are my friends? I'm here for you. [00:18:37] Speaker A: He's like the worst friend ever, Ray. Like, he's. He's probably like the guy that found Lane Staley. [00:18:45] Speaker B: Wow. [00:18:47] Speaker A: Too soon. It's 1992 here. Ahead of time, technically. [00:18:52] Speaker B: Wow. [00:18:53] Speaker A: So anyway, yeah, well, you know, block me, whatever, doxx me. I don't care. So we. Roblox me? Yeah, I'm just. Anyway, he goes to see Doctor Kurt Connors, who's of course not there. Talks to some lady doctor who we aren't going to see again in the rest of the issue. So I'm not even to bother to look and go find her name. [00:19:17] Speaker B: Tells him about the moonstone. [00:19:19] Speaker A: Oh, yeah. We get some more exposition here. I will at least say. I will at least say with all the exposition, at least it can't be like a MacGuffin at the end, right? [00:19:29] Speaker B: Can't be. [00:19:31] Speaker A: So anyway, we find about the moonstone that apparently turns John Jameson into Man Wolf. No way. [00:19:37] Speaker B: Man Wolf? [00:19:38] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:19:40] Speaker B: Is that a new superhero? [00:19:41] Speaker A: So I don't think he was a superhero. [00:19:46] Speaker B: I don't know. [00:19:46] Speaker A: We'd have to read spectacular Spider man annual number three. [00:19:50] Speaker B: Let's do it. Let's put it on the books. [00:19:54] Speaker A: Okay. Okay. So anyway, we flip the page. And then we get a dude dressed up like, oh, man. [00:20:08] Speaker B: Like, it's like a faceless. I don't know. How do you describe this? [00:20:21] Speaker A: It's like if Dolph Ziggler curled his hair more and put on a full silver bodysuit and then wore blue over it to make sure there was zero contrast in the coloring. There's some sort of red things, those arrows, like, what's going on? There are definitely plenty of pouches here because it is 1982. [00:20:46] Speaker B: Yeah, it's like a quiver of some sort of bolts. [00:20:49] Speaker A: And then we've got some brown, and then we've got some red eye slots with platinum hair. You know what, readers? And this book has no page numbers, so I can't tell you what page it's on. It's very annoying when books don't have page numbers. As you're aware, we hear this all. [00:21:09] Speaker B: The time about Dan and books that he reads that he's like, ugh, this book doesn't have page numbers. [00:21:16] Speaker A: You know, if you're tired of me complaining about books not having page numbers, you could always just put page numbers in your book. So it's real simple. It's not that hard. In fact, if you're referring to the book, I think you're referring to, that book has the world record holder for lettering, doing the letters on the book, who certainly could add to that world record by putting some page numbers down in the corner of the pages. [00:21:46] Speaker B: Now, it's already started with no page numbers. There's no reason to put them in now. [00:21:54] Speaker A: Under that logic, we never did cap Wulf before. Yeah, there's no reason to start now. So you know what? I say we just end the podcast right now. [00:22:07] Speaker B: Wow, dude. [00:22:09] Speaker A: And be done with this. And next week, all right, yeah, let's end this one next week. We're gonna move on, and I think maybe it's time. I don't know. Dan Juergens has a batman first nightbook out. That looks really cool. We could get into that. It's magazine size. Life magazine size. You know, the magazine. Not the big mag. No, not Life magazine. What is this? What kind of size is this? Help me out here. Is this tabloid size? What size is this? All right. Tabloid size. [00:22:38] Speaker B: Jeez, looks. [00:22:39] Speaker A: It looks really nice, doesn't it? All right, well, that's awesome. [00:22:43] Speaker B: We'll do that after cap wolf. [00:22:46] Speaker A: Are you sure? I mean, it looks really nice. [00:22:48] Speaker B: How's it for it? [00:22:49] Speaker A: I've got all sorts of books down here that we could talk about. How about this? Superman 78, the metal curtain. Right, like that. That's kind of fun. Yeah. Oh, Tom King's Penguin series. We could read that. That's good stuff. [00:23:03] Speaker B: I don't know. I don't know who you're afraid. [00:23:06] Speaker A: You don't know who Tom King is. Yeah. And oh, look, this is fun. Look at like Star Trek Picards Academy. That looks fun. [00:23:16] Speaker B: It looks nice. [00:23:17] Speaker A: Yeah. All of this, all of these things are more fun than we're reading now. Yet we're reading this. Well, anyway, we get a pronouncement. We find out who this guy is. We hear a voice from some squares in the sky. Oh, yeah, squares in the sky yells, moon hunter, we need to speak with you. [00:23:36] Speaker B: Oh, moon hunter. [00:23:38] Speaker A: And then a werewolf tries to attack Moon Hunter and he's like annoyed and has to beat up the werewolves and establish his dominance. And then he goes up through the big squares. And then I found when we go. [00:23:53] Speaker B: To, the only way to assert dominance over dogs besides biting them is to urinate on them. [00:24:01] Speaker A: Okay, I'm going to sell that. So we get on and then we flip the page and Captain America is at the Daily Bugle. Oh, what? Visiting with J. Jonah Jameson. [00:24:17] Speaker B: Ah. [00:24:17] Speaker A: And they have a nice cut. Remember I said that? Die. I guess maybe the dialogue is better. There does heal steam to seem to be a lot of it, but maybe just better. So, you know, I guess we're growing. I shouldn't be so angry about the book. [00:24:28] Speaker B: Hey, have you seen, have you seen your kid? Cuz I'm looking for your son, my friend. [00:24:33] Speaker A: Yeah. Oh, yeah. Well, my kid's a good boy, you know? He's a good boy. Please find him. Okay. [00:24:39] Speaker B: Why is he hanging out with you? [00:24:42] Speaker A: Yeah, I pay him and Jonah, Jonah, look. Jonah looks sad. Yeah, Jonah looks sad. [00:24:48] Speaker B: You pay my boy to hang out with you? [00:24:52] Speaker A: Tell me what's wrong with the art here. Because I can't. I don't like it and I can't explain why. Right? Like, I feel like it's backwards. [00:25:06] Speaker B: Like in which panels? [00:25:08] Speaker A: Well, like. Okay, so we have this scene and we're touching all these characters for like a page. Which is weird because I feel like we're going through like 5000 characters in this book. [00:25:18] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah, it's quickness. [00:25:21] Speaker A: You have to know a lot about Captain America comics and Marvel comics to read this book. And since I know about Spider Man, I know some of these characters are right. But then I'm lost on some other ones. So we have this page and cap goes to talk to J. Jonah Jameson about his kid who we do know, through Spider man lore he loves. Right. Obviously, yeah. And then they talk, and Jonah's trying to hold it together, be all stern while he talks to cap and sort of lecture him. And we go for this really well, I don't want to say really clear, because the line art is a little basic. I think basic is the good word. Like, these are a file cabinet, and it's literally just like, squares that I would have drawn in, like, a 6th grade art class. Right? And so. And a computer. So, I mean. And again, it's not fair, because, I mean, we went the Joe Bennett art in those other books, was that two thousands, like, slick, kind of broad, comic y style. [00:26:20] Speaker B: Right? [00:26:20] Speaker A: And we had Giffen, who before that, who just draws everything. Right, like that. That cabinet would have everything, like, Florida leases on it or something. Right? Like. [00:26:30] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:26:31] Speaker A: Anyway, and then we get this. Yeah. Though I just don't think his office would be like this. [00:26:38] Speaker B: Right. [00:26:39] Speaker A: Also, like, it's weird because, like, why is the window behind him closed? The window behind him is never closed. Like, the shades are closed. [00:26:45] Speaker B: Spider man can't get in if it's closed. [00:26:49] Speaker A: Well, no, it's closed. But, I mean, his window. Anyway, that's iconic part of his office, right? Is that window. And they open it later in cap. But anyway, it's when they go to the bottom, right? Like, I like the shot. Kind of the basic lines. Like, cap looking through the blinds. It's kind of a cool shot, but we get to the end, and we do the pullback shot. We do a pullback shot instead of a close up, and I feel like. Like that last shot should have been, like, him. He glances at his kid in one panel, and we do this pullback shot of him sort of looking down at it, like he's looking at his kid. I mean, it's fine. It's a choice. And it's such a basic shot, though. But I feel like. Like this is what I mean, it should have been the opposite, right? Like, I feel like we should have gone from. Yeah, like, he should have been looking his kid. Then cap shows up, and then maybe that last panel is, like, jonah, like, here or something. [00:27:40] Speaker B: Yeah, I think you're right. Like, it starts on the last panel. We have him putting the picture back in. Cap pops in, and they're having to talk and stuff like that. And it just, like, it flows back through, and the last panel is climbing out, and. And Jonah is like, please find my boy. You know? I think that flows better. It seems more realistic. Like, you know, that there's that. That moment, it captures a different moment, I think, right here, what we're seeing in this. You're right. It's a little. It just ends. Like, I feel like he would be having that private moment of, like, he knows his skid is gone. Maybe. I don't know. [00:28:32] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah. Well, we flipped a page, and then we get cap flying away on his sky cycle. Sky cycle, my favorite thing. Just had a motorcycle cycle. And we get the daily bugle. Looks like it's a bad movie. Prop set. [00:28:50] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah. [00:28:52] Speaker A: Like, the lines are just, like, really. It's, like, squared off and two dimensional. That's what it is. This art. A lot of this art in here is very two dimensional. [00:29:02] Speaker B: Yeah, it's flat. [00:29:03] Speaker A: And it's flat. Yeah. And then the door is flat. [00:29:06] Speaker B: Well, he calls that bottom panel's flat. Like. Yeah, he walks into that room, and it's just like. It's very flat. I can't draw more shit. So it's. But. [00:29:17] Speaker A: Right, but you're also not getting paid to draw, like, you know, one of Marvel's top, theoretically, top books. Right. So, like, yeah, I mean, okay. And then we get. And you know, when you have a unique style like this, too, artistically, like, I'm expecting something to go with it. Right. If you're going to have a style like this. And I'm just. It's not. She's not doing it for me. But that's okay. We get cap calls Agent Carter. Well, calls Peg now. Yeah, and. Yeah, and Peg. And Peg sent the boy outside. And then you're gonna. No, sell that. Thanks. And then, see, I actually make a real pop culture reference, and you're like, yeah, no, yeah, yeah. [00:30:06] Speaker B: Okay. Yeah, she sent the boy outside. [00:30:10] Speaker A: Yeah, sorry, sorry. What's wrong with the boy? I was expecting, like. I was expecting, like, an impression or something, and I got nothing. Anyway, so the. Anyway, cap can't find doctor Strange, so he goes to Boston and goes to somebody else's house. He opens the door, and the person says, they're upstairs. And we get, um, the most early nineties superhero ever. Um, first off, like, it's a. It's the long hair with the little bit of receding hairline, a goatee. Uh, we get a triangle inside of a triangle with an eye in it and a completely red, muscled up bodysuit. Cause all the mystics I've ever met are super, like, muscled up. They were outlifting. 225 on the bench. He probably lists 5000 pounds on the bench. [00:31:10] Speaker B: He drinks tea. He does a lot of really good yoga. He's into tantric stuff, you know, Pilates. What do you think? [00:31:21] Speaker A: Well, we meet Doctor Druid, who apparently was seen in Avengers Spotlight 37, leaving the Avengers on bad terms. I did look up this character. This character was indeed created by Larry Lieber, who, hopefully you know who that is. I heard the name Jack Kirby and Steve Ditko. And first it appeared in Amazing Adventures number one in March of 1961 as Doctor Droom. Doctor Droome. Doctor Drew first appeared as Doctor Druid, who we're meeting now in weird Wonder Tales number 19, two of the more famous books in Marvel's history. Of course. You know, I'm sure if you go back for major keys and look for things that are locked up in cases, around cases, weird wonder Tales number 19 is. Is definitely gonna be one of them. [00:32:18] Speaker B: Is he, like, a cousin of Doctor Strange? No, this is, like, his stepbrother. [00:32:29] Speaker A: No, no, he's just really lame. Yeah, it's. Well, there was that time when they tried to give in the early seventies when they tried to change Doctor Strange's costume into, like, a superhero costume, and then they. They did that for a couple years and gave him back his real costume. Yeah, this is it right here. This is. I mean, give it to another guy. [00:32:54] Speaker B: Hey, man, I'm gonna make you a hero. [00:32:57] Speaker A: This man, also based on his history, was originally known as Anthony Ludgate, but changed his name to Anthony Druid so he could officially be called Doctor Druid because he earned an MD from Harvard. [00:33:10] Speaker B: He's a real doctor, in case you need one. [00:33:14] Speaker A: And he changed his name just so he could be called Doctor Druid. Nice. He has a PhD, but on the Marvel scale of what is it, one to seven, he only has an intelligence ranking of three. [00:33:25] Speaker B: Oh. [00:33:27] Speaker A: We should tell you what doctors are worth. I mean, so if you wanted to. [00:33:32] Speaker B: Use him in a game or something like that. He is not the. He wouldn't. He wouldn't hold up. [00:33:37] Speaker A: He's about as useful as he is in this comic. [00:33:39] Speaker B: Oh, dang. Wow. [00:33:43] Speaker A: And so anyway. Well, anyway, they have a chat. Apparently, he's gotten younger. [00:33:52] Speaker B: Gotten. [00:33:52] Speaker A: You got a new lease on life? [00:33:54] Speaker B: Yeah, he's been hanging here. [00:33:55] Speaker A: We haven't. [00:33:55] Speaker B: Yeah, he's also been hanging out with, I think, the. The guy who. Who pulls out envelopes from the mayonnaise jars on late show. [00:34:08] Speaker A: I have no. [00:34:09] Speaker B: Come on. Seriously? You're gonna seriously do that to me? [00:34:12] Speaker A: So I don't know, like, it's your guy. [00:34:14] Speaker B: He's my guy. And tells you the future? [00:34:19] Speaker A: You like the guy with the puppets too? [00:34:22] Speaker B: Who doesn't. [00:34:24] Speaker A: Well, I mean, isn't he. Isn't this just like, this is like a faith healer or something, right? [00:34:29] Speaker B: I'm gonna tell you your infinite past and futures with this. I know. [00:34:34] Speaker A: Well, anyway, he touches. He touches a piece of paper, and he says he doesn't know where Mister Jameson is, so he uses the paper to know it's Mister Jameson. Doctor. Doctor Druid. Yes. But in his full red bodysuit, this is like. Okay, so this is a jobber costume if I've ever seen one. Right? [00:35:01] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:35:02] Speaker A: I'm gonna put myself in a full red bodysuit and have a little eye on my chest. We're gonna call myself doctor eye. [00:35:10] Speaker B: Doctor eye. Wait, he's an eye doctor? Is that. [00:35:14] Speaker A: Well, explain to me how anything about this costume refers to, like, a doctor druid. Like, shouldn't he have, like, trees or something on his costume? Or. [00:35:22] Speaker B: Well, I mean, like, he's got a rune, right? He's got runes. [00:35:28] Speaker A: After a long rest, he can ritual cast something, or like what? I don't know. Like. Oh, God. Okay, well, let's see how useful this guy is. So he rides bitch on the sky cycle. [00:35:45] Speaker B: And then. Oh, no, once they get into the woods. Bad news bears. [00:35:53] Speaker A: Yeah. Yeah. They get there, they see some dry blood. He's super. He's very observant. And he immediately gets attacked by a werewolf, knocked down and taken out of the fight for the rest of the issue. [00:36:03] Speaker B: Yeah. I mean, dude, that werewolf just, like, goes for the kill on him. [00:36:10] Speaker A: Yeah. And should. I mean, honestly, the Marvel universe would probably be better off without Doctor Druid. [00:36:16] Speaker B: Yeah. And cap hits a werewolf with his wang. [00:36:22] Speaker A: Yeah. Wow. He does. Yeah, that's what it says right on the page. [00:36:27] Speaker B: That's the funniest thing. It's like I'm reading it twice. [00:36:33] Speaker A: What? Yeah, it does. It does. We went from Kathums to Vlangs. Right? Wow. Yeah. I'm definitely gonna say that Keith Giffen had a leg up on Mark Grenwald for the noises in the background. Right. Like we are. Or is it the artist? Or is it the letter's responsibility to put the noise in the background? [00:36:54] Speaker B: That's a good question, because Travis was. [00:36:57] Speaker A: Saying that Tom say his last name. [00:37:00] Speaker B: Oracowski. [00:37:02] Speaker A: Thank you. Did some of the noises in the background. [00:37:06] Speaker B: Correct. [00:37:07] Speaker A: So, okay, well, we'll get into this. All right, so now. So anyway, somebody liked a lot of wang, so they put it in the story, and then I missed that completely. I thought it was hilarious. It's probably the first time I've missed Wang and you've seen it. So, like, that's. [00:37:29] Speaker B: It was twelve year old me. I was like, damn hilarious. [00:37:34] Speaker A: Well, then Captain America fights this werewolf the whole time. Talking to the werewolf or yelling out for Doctor Drew. [00:37:40] Speaker B: John, is it you? I can't. I don't want to hurt you. Oh, man. [00:37:43] Speaker A: Yeah, it doesn't. Are you. Are you a werewolf? Are you a lady werewolf? John, are you a werewolf? [00:37:50] Speaker B: It's me, Cap. John. [00:37:53] Speaker A: And then this dude, the moon. And then they're fighting and moon. What's his face? Moon, moon hunter, moon beam, moon, moon Hunter, moon Hunter comes by, lasso's the werewolf around the neck, says, bad doggy. [00:38:11] Speaker B: Bad doggy. [00:38:13] Speaker A: And Captain America up, looks up like the rest of us and says, who in the world? Which again, yeah. And he's riding a what can best be described as a hovercraft sky cycle with four spinny things on the bottom. He's writing which best can best be described as the earth version of Lobo's. [00:38:37] Speaker B: Yeah, looking. Yeah, looking kind of lobo ish to me. [00:38:41] Speaker A: Yeah, that's. That's the gobots. Yeah. Lobo's motorcycle Gobot version. [00:38:47] Speaker B: So is. Is this a gobo? [00:38:52] Speaker A: Maybe. Whoa, Bo. So they're trying to rip off Lobo. That's what they're doing here. No, fuck, Bo, that is what they're doing. Now that I look at this more. [00:39:02] Speaker B: Don'T you look at the character. I was gonna say that before. [00:39:05] Speaker A: Oh, my God. [00:39:05] Speaker B: This character looks like Lobo, but with a metal face. And then when I flipped to this page earlier, I was like, whoa, that's Lobo's bike. [00:39:19] Speaker A: Wow. Oh, wow. [00:39:21] Speaker B: Wait till you get to the neck to the next book when, like, the other weapons and stuff pop out. You're like, whoa, this is Lobo. No, bro, you can't be Lobo. This is a no no. Dan says there's a no go on that. No, no. Oh, no. [00:39:43] Speaker A: It's continued. It's continued in two weeks. I can't wait. But for you friends, you'll get it in one week. [00:39:51] Speaker B: Yeah, you'll get in one week. [00:39:53] Speaker A: Well, we flip the page and we get Stanley presents Diamond back with no explanation of who the character is. [00:40:00] Speaker B: Because you should know. [00:40:02] Speaker A: Well, and also just. You really shouldn't. I mean. Yeah. The fact of the matter is this character doesn't deserve the little bio at the top because she sucks. [00:40:13] Speaker B: Oh, wow. This is like a total, like, you know, diamondback and crossbones are doing a little, like, street fighter action going on here. That's what I saw. When I first saw this page, I was like, wow, that's cool. And then I read the title. [00:40:28] Speaker A: Yeah, but except. Except, well, let's. Let's tell them who did this book. We got this backup. Larry Grunwald, Larry Anderson on pencils, inker Ariana Arian. Arian Lenzhoek, colorist Arianne Lenschoke. Letter Steve Dutro, and editor Ralph Macchio. Well, and to your point now, just getting right back here, her name is Rachel Layton, once known as Diamondback. So why are we calling it diamondback? And then you were so excited about these issues that you actually read the last issue. So tell us how we got here. [00:41:08] Speaker B: Oh, I read. I read issue. So we're in 402. So I read 401 first. And so you were so excited. Well, I. I wasn't to. In all honesty, the way that the marvel. Marvel.com is set up, you can't just find 402 because it's hidden within the deep realms of the marvel. Read marvel.com. you have to click on 401 to get to it. And I said, might as well just read 401 to get to 402, because I'm that guy. So I'm reading through it. I'm like, oh, okay, cool. So let's give me an introduction to all the characters that I know and care about. And there. Nobody is going to be in the next. It's just a quick, like, hey, everybody. And then at the very end of 401, you see what appears to be crossbones rescuing her, and then they. She's like, oh, thank you. And he's like, no, don't thank me yet. Get into this hole. Get into here. We're gonna go in here. Where is this? It's. We're gonna stay here for a while, or I should say you're gonna stay here for a while. And it's basically like a little fallout shelter. He basically dumps her off in a. In, like, a. In a pit. In a. [00:42:25] Speaker A: In a pit. [00:42:26] Speaker B: It's like a hole in the ground that's a little fallout shelter. And she's like, what the hell? Because, like, he rescued her from, like, a. Like a boat had. She was on a. On a cruise ship, and she got thrown off of it. [00:42:43] Speaker A: Well, this is called the pit in the pitiful. Yeah, the story. And. Yeah, well, yeah, so she's fighting crossbones, who I. I. You know, again, the art. Right? Like, they. They were really hurting for pencilers because crossbones looks terrible. [00:43:04] Speaker B: It looks so weird from the back. It almost looks like when you put an eraser on the top of a pencil itself. Like one of those funny erasers on a pencil or something. It just looks weird. Or like you put like a. Like you have an action figure head, like a. That goes like a Barbie head or something like that. That falls off and you put it on your thumb. That's what it looks like. It doesn't look like a head that's supposed to go on a neck. [00:43:32] Speaker A: I also don't expect comics to have perfect artistic composition, but this scene where he tosses her onto the bed, her body is touching the bed in a way that is not physically possible. [00:43:50] Speaker B: Yeah, it looks kind of weird. Like, I think she would be broken. [00:43:56] Speaker A: Yeah. Like, I mean, it reminds me of, like, the poses you get in, like an Michael Allred piece. Right. [00:44:04] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:44:06] Speaker A: But those are intentional, and I don't feel like this is, you know, back. That's his whole style. Right. Is kind of the weird poses and everything. But anyway, we get. We get the flashback of her being thrown off the ship by somebody. [00:44:25] Speaker B: Yeah. So it gives you that quick flashback of what happened in the last book. [00:44:29] Speaker A: An old rival literally just happened. [00:44:31] Speaker B: So, I mean, I guess it's. If you didn't read the last book. So, like, Dan. [00:44:34] Speaker A: Well, that's good. We probably needed a catch up. [00:44:37] Speaker B: Yeah. So. [00:44:38] Speaker A: And then. [00:44:39] Speaker B: But it is interesting, though, because he saves her, and she feels like he's going to save her, but it's just to capture her. [00:44:47] Speaker A: Yeah. So he puts her in a pit with a rope that goes down, that he descends down and ascends things down on. So we confirmed that silence of the lambs came out about a year before this book. [00:45:01] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:45:03] Speaker A: So I'm not saying silence of the Lambs had any influence on this whatsoever, except that I am not. [00:45:08] Speaker B: Not anything. Not. Not anything to. To influence this at all. Is there a dog later? I don't know. [00:45:15] Speaker A: Well, they talk a lot. Like, yeah, I'm gonna torture you. Can we. Can we read? And then she gets. Then she talks. Like, don't. She's calling him cross, which is interesting. Like, yelling up at him is like, don't close this thing. I'm gonna get claustrophobic. I'm gonna get trapped here. I'm gonna lose my mind. She starts thinking about Captain America. And then. Okay, so then we go up to the top, and crossbones is going back to see the red skull in his weird facial costume, which is just. Anyway, I don't. And he's got a cool car. [00:46:00] Speaker B: He's hiding in the woods and stuff. [00:46:03] Speaker A: And then we see a character called Mother Knight. Who's wearing sunglasses because she had the shit beat out of her by the red skull, presumably. [00:46:18] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:46:19] Speaker A: And then gets kissed by somebody else without her permission. And then we end on continued. So in this short. Okay, so maybe it's just because we got done with the stupid terror titan shit, but in, like, six pages, I get a woman captured and being tortured by being placed in a pit, another woman who is getting beaten by, presumably, their lover. [00:46:47] Speaker B: Uh huh. [00:46:48] Speaker A: And then having a man forsome himself on her. [00:46:51] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:46:52] Speaker A: I believe I asked you during the terror titans episodes, do you have Gale Simone on speed dial so we can get, get some, some thoughts here? Like, what the fuck is this? [00:47:04] Speaker B: Like, I'm imagining, I imagine that that's how you end up with such a prolific writer. Like her coming out into the world from when she did to now doing the type of work because, and ushering in other creators because of this type of stuff, you know? I mean, yeah. [00:47:32] Speaker A: You know, well, and it's funny too, because she, like, she, she uses Ron Mars's work, right? Like on Green Lantern, you know, with, and, but I mean, I feel like, I mean, but that's just an example, right? Like, I think people need to remember that too. Like, when we say women in refrigerators, like that, she wasn't just trying to attack Ron Mars, right. Like, she's critiquing the industry. It's a critique of the industry. And here it is. Right. Like, this is awful. So. And in addition, we had another woman with a rope tied around her neck, if you're counting the werewolf thing. [00:48:10] Speaker B: Oh, yeah. [00:48:11] Speaker A: Now, I'm not saying you can't have action in comic books, right? And I'm not saying you can't do things in comic books. And I'm not saying you shouldn't have shock things, but, man, when it's so passe. [00:48:21] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:48:23] Speaker A: And then they stack up. Like, I would have noticed that the rope, the necktie of the female werewolf. Right. If these other things weren't here, right. Like, I would have just been like, oh, okay, well, that was a part of the story. [00:48:35] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:48:37] Speaker A: But when you add in these other things, it's like, man, it's a lot. [00:48:42] Speaker B: And I'm sure, like, a comic like this now would definitely, like, there would be a lot of flags. [00:48:51] Speaker A: I don't know. I don't know. [00:48:53] Speaker B: I'm pretty sure, I'm pretty sure there'd be a lot. I mean, I've, I know from what. [00:48:57] Speaker A: A comic like this even make the newsstand now because we have better stuff out there. [00:49:02] Speaker B: Stuff out there. But I think, I'm pretty sure a story like this would have had it raised a lot of attention in the, with the, with the staff, and there would have been questions as to, well, you know, how can we, how are we, why, why are we having, why is this part of the story? What conversation are you having with this type of action? What are you trying to do with this type of action through this type of story? Does it lead to something or, you know, and how does it grow, the character or the story? And if those questions couldn't be answered, I'm pretty sure that they would be removed, changed, or find a different path because you have so many different things that are going on in the story that have a negative tone. [00:49:56] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:49:57] Speaker B: So, yeah, that are unnecessary. That's just, that's just one observation. Secondly, I mean, and I'm pretty sure other podcasts be like, well, you guys, it's just a different time. You don't understand. No, we understand. We grew up reading this stuff. I mean, well, I did. You didn't, but, I mean, grew up reading stuff in this timeframe, and it doesn't make it right. It just. [00:50:18] Speaker A: Well, I was reading different stuff. [00:50:20] Speaker B: Different stuff that definitely had stories that were of the same nature, but doesn't. [00:50:27] Speaker A: It'S not like I didn't read a Captain America book before. I just wasn't interested in the character at all. And I think this is some of the reason why. Right. Like, I have not read these issues. [00:50:37] Speaker B: That you're gonna end up having to muddle through. Why would you want to? [00:50:46] Speaker A: Yeah. And I just, I didn't get, like, the, I don't know. I. Yeah, it, yeah, it's. Well, it's. It's a book. It's a book. It happened at some point in time in 1992. It's very clear to me that this book suffers from some of the lack of artistic talent that was out there, as a lot of it went to image, and folks started self publishing, and I think you weren't, you know, we're far from the days of getting, you know, somebody great on this book. [00:51:23] Speaker B: I think that's an interesting thing to note and an interesting piece of history for folks that are not, that just were, that might not be aware or when you're remembering things differently from this time and place in history of comics is that we had, like, a mini vacuum. The big two lost huge amounts of talent because that talent decided to go and create their own thing because they weren't creating it for them, because they realized that they could do it themselves. And this is the giant beginning of what we're seeing today. And, you know, I think that's, that's an amazing, that it, if it wasn't for those creators doing that, finding themselves, those, those footholds and places like Mirage image, I say mirage, but you know, that, you know what I mean? If that wasn't, if you didn't have that type of thing happen, you wouldn't have a bunch of kids that believed that they could make something in their living room or their kitchen, you know? [00:52:28] Speaker A: Yep. Well, and there's another piece of it, too. I think we had the big two, especially Marvel. Especially Marvel, pushing older artists out for the new artists and those new, and they didn't pay those new artists enough, and they were pushing out their old artists. The new artists all left, and the old artists told them to go fuck off. [00:52:46] Speaker B: And those old artists went and created their, their own imprints that you were like, oh, what's this? What's now comics? What's, you know, and you're finding these, these older, these older artists going out and doing stuff like that or crossed or other stuff and, or going out and working in places like Dark Horse and creating their own creator own comics and stuff like, like that. And that's how you end up with a Ron Randall, you know, young, young guy at the time, but coming out and doing stuff and heralding in newer stuff. [00:53:26] Speaker A: And even some artists at the time, like, you think of some people that were available at the time that weren't really doing anything, like, I mean, we were, I sent you the link. They're finally releasing the DC style book from 1982. All the stuff Jose Luis Garcia Lopez did. Right. And for those that don't know what the style book is. So what happened with DC Comics? Yeah, well, no, no. [00:53:49] Speaker B: I mean, it's, I think, cool thing. [00:53:51] Speaker A: Important. It's important thing. So basically, originally, like, Marvel and DC, if they license a product, they would basically steal somebody's art from a comic page. Right. And then license it out and give that artist no money. [00:54:04] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:54:05] Speaker A: So DC in the eighties had Jose Luis Garcia Lopez draw all of their characters and put it in a style book. And for everything that was licensed, it was licensed off his work, and then he was paid for his work when it was licensed. And it was also a style guide for other artists to use to see and visualize the characters. Right. And actually read a post from Paul Levitz that I sent you. This is really interesting. Right. But I hadn't, I hadn't actually thought about that piece that Paul Paul, he was said, right? It's like we intentionally did this so somebody would actually get paid for their work when we license things instead of just stealing the art. And I'm like, yeah, that does make sense. And I know what they did wasn't necessarily perfect, but that's finally being released for sale now in 2024, which is really cool. But I just think of people that were out there. I mean, Jose Luis Garcia Lopez was out there and telling them to fuck off. [00:55:03] Speaker B: Right? [00:55:03] Speaker A: Like, I mean, or maybe he wanted work. I don't know. Like, we'd have to ask him, I guess. But we know I can't ask him because I'll go all bubbly when I go ask him. But the. Sir? Sir, did you. But yeah, I mean, you. You think about, like. I mean, I was just thinking about people that were out there, right? God. Steve epting was out there. Was not drawing Avengers yet. Was drawing Avengers. Sorry, drawing. But he was drawing Avengers. Yeah, but not drawing this. Right. Like, he's, like, we have. Maybe he couldn't. Maybe he didn't have time. I don't know. Right. [00:55:43] Speaker B: I'll bet. Like that. [00:55:44] Speaker A: But they are building up. I mean, I was trying to think of people. I was looking at people they were building up to. Right? So they got. They got Steve up. Ting. Right. So they did have him there. I mean, I don't rank him as, like, with a todd or, you know, like, up in that category, but he's. He's a solid artist right there. There were people out there that could have been trying. It just shows me this is a second or third tier book, possibly third tier for Marvel. I mean, you have. X Men are super hot at the time, right? You're putting your focus there where the money is. [00:56:19] Speaker B: And if Cap isn't bringing in the cash, then you're not going to put the money to the team that, you know, the creative team and. And all that's not going to be bringing home that money every month for you. You're going to put it on the X Men or any X Men property. You're going to be putting it on. If Spider man, at the time, is bringing you that money, that's what you're going to do. And if I remember correctly, I'm pretty sure you and I were buying Spider man books in this timeframe. [00:56:54] Speaker A: Well, I mean, they had. Well, I bought them when Todd was doing. Yeah, but I mean, I quit. I quit after, but. [00:56:59] Speaker B: Yeah, but I. I know for a fact because, like, there. There was a chunk of stuff in my. In my box, for sure. That was like, legitimately even before and after. But it was like, it, it was all of this through, I want to say, like that, 90 to 96. [00:57:24] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:57:25] Speaker B: And, and it was, there was a lot of key moments that happened, you know, so why. [00:57:31] Speaker A: And Rick Levins bounced for Marvel like, a couple years later. He did exo man of War after it got bad. [00:57:38] Speaker B: Right? [00:57:39] Speaker A: Like, it, like, I mean, he did like issue 26 to, like 40. So, I mean, the guy had a lot of work done. I do like this art better. I don't know. Maybe he was phoning it in. I don't know. Maybe there were some creative controls that were, could have been driving. Like, I'm looking at some of his other stuff and it. Well, this seems flat, though. I'm looking at the dragonfly stuff that he created in the eighties, and it's really flat here. I'll share a screenshot so you can see. [00:58:09] Speaker B: I agree. This whole book seemed very, it didn't have a lot of stuff that popped off the page to me, that was very exciting in that sense. There was like the characters had, it didn't have a lot of depth to it. It was entertaining and looked good, but it didn't just jump because it was very flat. Yeah, yeah. The Dragonfly. [00:58:36] Speaker A: And they'd seen this work before and still higher, you know, so, like, yeah. I mean, yeah. I don't know. Like, again, you know, it's weird because we don't, I feel like with the Mark Grunwald stuff, we didn't pick on the art as much, but now we, now we're. Yeah, kind of. And, you know, it is a different style, too. Right. Like, this is probably maybe more Bronze Age, almost silver age art, which some people certainly like. Right. Like, I certainly like my share of silver age art. In fact, you know, let me. Well, let's, you know, since I've got one hanging out right here, I think what it is. [00:59:11] Speaker B: And it might mean. It might be. Well, yeah, and there's no, it's Kurt, but, yeah, you can't. This is apples and oranges, you know, to that. [00:59:20] Speaker A: I mean, I'm holding up a Kurt swan piece right now for those of you that are listening, because you can't see what we're doing. But there's a lot of flatness to this. [00:59:27] Speaker B: There's a lot of flatness to it. [00:59:29] Speaker A: But it's a different age. [00:59:30] Speaker B: But it's a different age. You're taking a look at adventure comics, Kurt Swan art and you're holding up to, to this piece and you're like, okay, well, you know, Levinson and team did this and it's like, well, yeah, it's. [00:59:51] Speaker A: I'm trying to find an era for it. It doesn't seem very bronze age to me. It seems almost like going back in time, I would say. [01:00:00] Speaker B: I think right now, too, you're coming off of a couple of very dynamic books that we've, we read through art style wise. You know, the art was very dynamic in the last two books that we covered. The feel, the way that it moved, the way that your eye was drawn through. If the story wasn't gripping you, at least the art was making you go, wow, I'm right there. It's pulling me through in the last book and definitely in the book before that, so. [01:00:34] Speaker A: But yeah, just, I'm looking at some more of his work. It's totally silver age. That was in the 80, 80, like five or six. [01:00:43] Speaker B: So he was definitely drawing. [01:00:44] Speaker A: So he's riffing on the silver age at that point. [01:00:47] Speaker B: So he's riff silver age, what he grew up with and then went, oh, that's a cool cover, though. [01:00:57] Speaker A: I love the color on some of these. But, yeah, we're looking, and for those, we're looking at some of his dragonfly covers. So I want to go from AC Comics or from american comic America. Let me comics. Thank you, America. And I will say this, whether I like the art or not, one of the fun things about doing the podcast, even if I hate the book and I'm not a fan of this art, like, it's always fun to go back and, like, see who these folks were. [01:01:24] Speaker B: Yeah. [01:01:25] Speaker A: And see what they did. So. Yeah, like, I'm. I mean, I'm down with some of this. Like, I feel like we, we read one book that had computer art, like, similar in this flat style, and we were okay with it, but it just. Yeah, well, anyway, I don't want to, you know what we got? We got six more books by the team, and I don't need to overanalyze it now. [01:01:48] Speaker B: Yeah, we'll get, we'll get there when we get there. You know, there's a lot of, there's a lot of things that might not be fantastic, but there are some things that are, that are, that are all right. You know, that we can, that we can appreciate about it. So it's got a lot of, a lot of different characters in it, and that's great. You got a lot of favorites. I like that the writing, albeit some, some things questionable. There was a lot of, it was interesting to see how you would have chunks of action with no, no dialogue and just sound effects. And then there was a lot of, like, oh, hey, gonna give you these big old chunky, chunky pages of dialogue or text. [01:02:36] Speaker A: Yeah. I do feel like it's better, though. Yeah. [01:02:39] Speaker B: Yeah. [01:02:39] Speaker A: Because he didn't write. He didn't write over the action sequences this time. So I feel like there's some growth there. Yeah, almost. Yeah. I mean, I'd almost maybe, you know, want to see it a couple years from now. Unfortunately, of course, in this. The sad part is with Mark Grunwald, we don't get to see progression past 1996 because he passes away. So it's not a situation where we only have a small window to see him grow and improve as a writer. And obviously, you know, Marvel thought he was decent enough to give him a. But we may be deciding this is a second or third tier book. Right. But they did leave him on it for a long time. So I guess sometimes that's the benefit of getting, like, a second or third tier book that's not ever going to get canceled, though they did cancel cap eventually, but generally you get a book with a long term following or a long term character. Maybe you can hold on to that for a while. Well, anyway, we will. We should wrap this one up. I assume you have something you want to push at the time, but when this airs, we may. We're probably about done here. [01:03:51] Speaker B: Well, when. When this airs, hopefully. Hopefully we'll just be cruising into those stretch goals for starlight issue number seven. [01:04:03] Speaker A: Yeah. Well, we'll be June 5, so. All right. Am I doing math right? No, it will not be June 5. Can I actually. [01:04:12] Speaker B: Can you do math? [01:04:13] Speaker A: Well, we're, of course, recording this on the day that it airs, right? [01:04:17] Speaker B: Yeah, of course. We do things in a professional, fantastic manner here at the. [01:04:25] Speaker A: We don't put things in the future. We don't. [01:04:27] Speaker B: We don't put things in the future. Not here at the funny book forensics on Project Ash. Nerd. [01:04:33] Speaker A: Oh, my gosh. I forgot that. I was so sad about the book. I forgot to talk about the network we were on. Look at us ruin that. I guess we should probably plug the people that support us. I mean. Yeah. Project ascher.com, you know, your home for extreme baking advice and recipe stories. [01:04:57] Speaker B: Yes, extreme baking advice and recipe stories, where you get all the good. [01:05:02] Speaker A: Definitely. Check it out. [01:05:03] Speaker B: Yeah. I mean, one time I was reading this great recipe where they teach you how to make cronuts. Another time, they taught us how to make banana bread and another time it was. [01:05:13] Speaker A: I saw one really sad one about a lava cake. [01:05:15] Speaker B: Oh, yeah, the lava cake one is really good. Yeah. I mean, sad, but last breath and. [01:05:20] Speaker A: All, but, yeah, holding that hand for the last time. Well, they also have another podcast called Spandex stand ups if you want to have a fun time with wrestling. I mean, much more fun time than my somber mood on this podcast. I think you'd probably like kicking into high gear. [01:05:40] Speaker B: That's why I'm here, Dan. I bring the funny. [01:05:44] Speaker A: You bring the funny to funny book forensics. Not this time. You're like, yeah, Dan, I agree with you. This book does kind of suck. [01:05:52] Speaker B: I was funny from. I was funny. I don't. I don't know if I was funny or not, people. [01:05:56] Speaker A: You be okay. [01:05:57] Speaker B: Be the judge of that. [01:05:58] Speaker A: I mean, we're supposed to be wrapping this up, though. I don't want to get too distracted here. Project aschner. Calm. Go there. [01:06:04] Speaker B: There's your. Get your Facebook. [01:06:06] Speaker A: Twitter stuff. Yeah, no, Facebook. Instagram. Why am I saying Twitter? [01:06:10] Speaker B: Facebook. [01:06:10] Speaker A: Just ignore me. Don't Facebook Instagram. Yeah, and. And, yeah, go on the threads. Starlight. [01:06:18] Speaker B: Starlight. Issue seven. We are back it and share it to your friends. [01:06:23] Speaker A: Don't tell them any about numbers here, because we don't want Jason. [01:06:25] Speaker B: Yeah, but we think that you're gonna find it's a fine product, a great. A great story. People like it. I'm just. [01:06:34] Speaker A: Well, we did two podcasts about it, so we must like it. [01:06:36] Speaker B: Yeah, we did. Well, you did it. [01:06:38] Speaker A: I heard you helped write it. [01:06:39] Speaker B: I did. I did. And then you helped you help with the launch of the Kickstarter. Because I couldn't make it because I had to work. [01:06:46] Speaker A: Me. [01:06:47] Speaker B: You. You. [01:06:48] Speaker A: Dan, I don't do much media. Esteemed member of the comic book. Of course, you'll also be able to find us on day one of Summer Con. Yeah. And on the 21 June, so, yeah, in fact, shirts are ordered, so you'll be able to find us with some pretty nifty shirts. You can find Greg with his funny book forensics shirts that says, I click the button, and mine that says, esteemed member of the media. So comic book media, so you can come find us. And, in fact, didn't I say, like. Did I say something about somebody? Well, we'll give stickers out. [01:07:30] Speaker B: Oh, yeah, we'll give stickers out. And then. [01:07:32] Speaker A: Yeah, no, talk to us. [01:07:34] Speaker B: And then I'm pretty sure, like, I. [01:07:36] Speaker A: Said something about giving a t shirt, but I've already forgotten about that was. [01:07:39] Speaker B: And you're gonna make me give away MXP xcds. But I don't have any, so. [01:07:43] Speaker A: Well, you should. I mean, we're not talking about that book currently. We're promoting another book. [01:07:48] Speaker B: Glad. Thank you. [01:07:49] Speaker A: Boy, if you want people back on that book, then, you know, have me refocus. I mean, you all shift me round, round, spinning round, round like a record, baby. Like a record, baby. So, yeah, it's all good. Well, okay. So. And then, of course, you can find Greg sometimes at the retro Emporium in Kent, Washington. But you can always find Ann there. Yeah, and that's on Meeker street, downtown Kent. Bring back your childhood. I hear they're getting a bunch of barbies or something. Oh, my gosh. [01:08:18] Speaker B: They're taking over my living room. Nothing but I. Too many boxes of barbies. Too many. Too many. [01:08:25] Speaker A: Well, there you go. That's there. [01:08:26] Speaker B: Hundreds of thousands of Barbie dolls. [01:08:29] Speaker A: We haven't thanked our good friend Jujitsu lawyer Paul Dro for the great last three podcasts we had. And you can also find him if you want to learn how to. If you want to learn how to choke out crossbones when he traps you. [01:08:42] Speaker B: In a pit, choke them out. You just gotta. [01:08:45] Speaker A: You can go to certified martial arts on Bridgeport and 27th in university place slash Tacoma, Washington. Learn from the best. I mean, if you want to go learn from the best. Go, go. And him. I've got my. Got a kiyahi there, his other trainer. You can go train with them. So. Yeah, why not? I mean, if you ever want to give something a shot, and I guess there's like a big. Well, yeah, we're past that, so. Never mind. I keep trying to go back and forward in time, so. Time anyway. Yeah. So. Well, we're good. [01:09:19] Speaker B: Yeah. Oh, boy. Well, I. We did it. We did it. We. We've done. We've done the podcast, Daniel. [01:09:26] Speaker A: We always do. [01:09:27] Speaker B: Oh, my gosh, that's amazing. I guess we can click the. Is there a button? [01:09:33] Speaker A: All right, I'll click the button. [01:09:35] Speaker B: Oh, we're supposed to say goodbye. [01:09:37] Speaker A: Okay. Oh, goodbye, people. Bye. [01:09:40] Speaker B: Thank you for listening. Bye.