Funny Book Forensics 277 Midnighter on Violence

[00:00:16] Speaker A: Are you ready for the best? [00:00:20] Speaker B: If I'm ready for the best, I wouldn't have chose this issue. [00:00:24] Speaker A: Oh, come on. On. This is a good issue. This is going to make a fantastic episode. [00:00:31] Speaker B: Backup artist in issue two of a comic. Always a good way to start. [00:00:35] Speaker A: You chose this. [00:00:37] Speaker B: I did choose this. [00:00:38] Speaker A: You chose this. [00:00:40] Speaker B: This is my fault. [00:00:41] Speaker A: This is on you, Dan. [00:00:44] Speaker B: Well, yeah. I mean, they can't all be good, right? I mean, they're not all us one. [00:00:50] Speaker A: They're not all us one. You're right. You're correct, sir. You are correct. They are not. But need we digress more? [00:01:02] Speaker B: Can I just say before we get into, like, I like Ryan Sook as an artist. [00:01:08] Speaker A: Yes. [00:01:09] Speaker B: But I am not into this artist. So Morgan here don't like the way that the look and Aco drawing Ryan sick hairstyles. So Alec Morgan, I get the pullback faux Mohawk thing. I don't know that Ryan sick draws, and it looks really good when Ryan sick draws it, but. Yeah, I don't know. I'm not into. [00:01:42] Speaker A: Just not. You're not. It's just not doing it for you. This is not a good look. [00:01:48] Speaker B: It's not a good look. It's really not a good look. It's a look. It's a choice. [00:01:54] Speaker A: It doesn't meet the Dan standards. [00:01:59] Speaker B: I didn't say it didn't meet the Dan standards. I just said it's a choice. [00:02:03] Speaker A: It's a choice. It's not a choice you would have chosen, but you did choose it. [00:02:09] Speaker B: So I will have to ask you on this cover. So we have like a Japanese sunflog cover. Is this actual Japanese on the COVID. [00:02:24] Speaker A: It is. Can I tell you what it means? No, I can't because I can't read the middle piece because, well, that is of a high school or collegiate. More so than. Basically what happens is you've got your basic hiragana, Katagana, and you've got other types of kanjis and whatnot. And when they start to make them, like, that middle piece, a lot of times when they are making newspapers or bigger prints with larger combinations of words to make things smaller, to be only three symbols, essentially they will take something and make it fit in that. So that probably has a lot more meaning to it. And I can't tell you what it means because I can't tell me what. [00:03:17] Speaker B: The first symbol means. [00:03:20] Speaker A: It appears to be a mo and the bottom appears to be a man. I'm really bad right now, but it is Japanese. Yeah, it is. [00:03:38] Speaker B: We just don't know what it means? [00:03:40] Speaker A: I couldn't tell you what the middle is because again, my level of reading is elementary school. [00:03:48] Speaker B: Where is Grandma? [00:03:50] Speaker A: Where is Grandma? She is not going to tell us. [00:03:54] Speaker B: There'll be no guest appearance. [00:03:55] Speaker A: There'll be no guest appearance. She's downstairs watching her samurai show and she has no interest in getting on the chair and making her way up the stairs. It's going to take two minutes to get up the stairs and then come into the office and look at this and then slap me in the back of the head and laugh at me and tell me I'm stupid, or more accurately, Baca, for asking her to read her whatever this is because I wasted her time. [00:04:33] Speaker B: Okay, well, it's an interesting cover. I have no idea who this character is. Maybe I should if I read, but I feel like it was the first appearance. [00:04:46] Speaker A: I thought you knew. I'm just joking. [00:04:50] Speaker B: Amazingly, I don't know everything about comics. It's hard to believe. [00:05:00] Speaker A: That's okay. [00:05:01] Speaker B: Well, maybe we should. It's kind of a cool cover. It's like a Japanese flag with a woman standing over it with midnighter sort of doing, I guess, kung fu 70s comic type pose. It is kind of a kung fu pose. [00:05:21] Speaker A: It has that or very what you'd find on a grindhouse movie theater. Like, oh, hey, this is a double feature and you got this cool. Whatever, this movie. And Sonny Chief is going to clean up in it at some point. The sister Street Fighter. [00:05:45] Speaker B: Well, I have confirmed this is the first appearance of this character and we don't know who she is. [00:05:51] Speaker A: Oh, cool. Awesome. Does she make it back in any other episodes or issues? [00:06:00] Speaker B: I don't know. We'll have to find out, I guess. [00:06:04] Speaker A: We'Ll have to find out, I suppose. All right, I guess we'll get into this. [00:06:09] Speaker B: Well, the good news is. Well, anyway, we'll get into that. Okay, so, yeah, we're turning the page. We get to see the alt cover too, which is weird. [00:06:23] Speaker A: Oh, my. [00:06:26] Speaker B: The altcovers, like midnight, are sort of looking out at us like he's looking through our closet door, maybe all, like, weird with blood all over him, with a dead guy behind him. It's really creepy. He looks like a serial killer. [00:06:37] Speaker A: Yeah, I kind of had that feeling. It's almost like just the weird, like, hey, I just murdered this dude and you saw what I did. Now I'm going to come get you. [00:06:56] Speaker B: Well, we get to the first page and it says Oakland after a death in the family. And so I was very concerned about Robin. [00:07:05] Speaker A: Oh, were you? [00:07:07] Speaker B: Yes. [00:07:08] Speaker A: That's also where my mind went to as well. I'm not going to lie because I read that and I was like, oh, this is like, literally right. It's in Oakland and it's literally right after that story. [00:07:20] Speaker B: Yeah. For a minute, I was like, why are we flashbacking to, like, what, 1988 ish? Yeah, it was weird. But it's a DC comic, and when you open with after a death in the pretty. That was a big storyline in DC Comics, right? So, yeah, interesting choice to open up. Do you know who wrote Batman a death in the family? Who do you know? [00:07:52] Speaker A: I don't. Tell us. [00:07:55] Speaker B: Jim Starlin. [00:07:57] Speaker A: What? I hear he's coming to town. [00:08:02] Speaker B: Is he really? [00:08:03] Speaker A: Yes. [00:08:06] Speaker B: Never mind. We'll take this offline. Okay. We are going, right? [00:08:10] Speaker A: I am not going. [00:08:12] Speaker B: What? [00:08:12] Speaker A: You can't with me? I can't because I have to work at the store, Dan. [00:08:19] Speaker B: Okay, we'll take this off. Wait, Jim Starlin's coming and you can't take a break to go see Jim Starlin? [00:08:25] Speaker A: I can't. [00:08:27] Speaker B: Sure you can't. [00:08:28] Speaker A: There's no time. No, I can't. Sigh I know it's a sad, sad life. [00:08:38] Speaker B: So I need to go see Jim Starlin because I had him sign a book that was written by him. [00:08:46] Speaker A: Was it death in a family? [00:08:47] Speaker B: No, it was a Legion book. But then he wrote the follow up book, but he called himself Steve Apollo. [00:08:54] Speaker A: Oh, yeah. [00:08:55] Speaker B: And now I want him to sign that one. [00:08:58] Speaker A: As Steve Apollo. [00:09:00] Speaker B: Well, probably as Jim Starlin, but played by Steve Apollo. I think it's also funny we're talking about Steve Apollo in reference to reading. [00:09:09] Speaker A: This comic book, which isn't that. What. [00:09:17] Speaker B: Well, Apollo makes an appearance comic book. He's not called Apollo. [00:09:24] Speaker A: That's. [00:09:24] Speaker B: Spoiler. [00:09:25] Speaker A: What? [00:09:25] Speaker B: They just call him Andrew. [00:09:27] Speaker A: Andrew. [00:09:29] Speaker B: Andrew. [00:09:30] Speaker A: Andrew. [00:09:31] Speaker B: Andrew. [00:09:32] Speaker A: Andrew. [00:09:34] Speaker B: I got Andrew and Lucas. [00:09:37] Speaker A: Andrew and Lucas. Are those even their real names? [00:09:41] Speaker B: I don't know. But we could just have, like, Andrew, Lucas, Hunter and Griffin. And we could have, like, a boy band Gen Z party. A Gen Z Boy band party. [00:09:52] Speaker A: What kind of music would they make? Here's a good question. What kind of music would it be? Would it be like. I don't know. [00:10:03] Speaker B: It would be like boy band music. But clearly Lucas would be the emo of the. [00:10:09] Speaker A: Yeah. Okay. Okay. [00:10:11] Speaker B: And he would be the one kind of, like, breaking away from the group early on. Oh. [00:10:15] Speaker A: To pursue his own thing with a little hair flip. And he's like, I'm out of your gas. I got things. [00:10:19] Speaker B: With the faux Hawk. [00:10:21] Speaker A: I got things. [00:10:22] Speaker B: Faux Hawk. Yeah. [00:10:23] Speaker A: I'm a little dangerous. [00:10:24] Speaker B: I just can't believe you guys sold out to the man. I'm an artist, and I need to think on my own and make some music. [00:10:34] Speaker A: Oh, my gosh. You know who he would look like? Chris Gaines. [00:10:40] Speaker B: Or would he look like Steve Apollo? [00:10:44] Speaker A: Oh, I don't know. It's a tough call. I don't know. [00:10:49] Speaker B: I don't know what Steve Apollo looks like. [00:10:53] Speaker A: Well, I do, but. [00:10:55] Speaker B: Well, he looks kind of like Jim Starlin, I guess. Yeah, honestly, midnighter does look like Jim Starlin. If Jim Starlin had that. [00:11:07] Speaker A: It's odly enough. You're kind of correct. Whoa. [00:11:12] Speaker B: Well, we're not talking about Jim Starlin. We're actually talking about a book written by Steve Orlando. [00:11:20] Speaker A: Steve Apollo? [00:11:22] Speaker B: Yeah. It even says if you look up Jim Starlin in Wikipedia, it says pseudonym Steve Apollo, which makes me so happy. Well, anyway, we can get into this. Yeah, I should really have him sign Superboy and Legion 250 and 251. You can Steve Apollo. So I could display it with my other issue that signed it by Jim Starlin. [00:11:55] Speaker A: You could. [00:11:57] Speaker B: Well, anyway, you should. I don't know if he'd get mad if I brought it to him, because anyway. Well, it's a long story. Anyway, he might. I don't even know if he'll will. [00:12:10] Speaker A: I hear Steve Apollo never forgets Steve Apollo. [00:12:14] Speaker B: Never. Well, anyway, back on task here after a death in the family. [00:12:18] Speaker A: After a death in the family. Man, we're still on that panel conversation. That panel. [00:12:23] Speaker B: Still no more than five minutes. Good God. [00:12:27] Speaker A: Okay, our one listener is likE, why am I even listening to this? [00:12:33] Speaker B: That, folks, is why it's called funny. [00:12:35] Speaker A: Book forensics, because we just dig down until we get to something. [00:12:40] Speaker B: We tore apart one panel. [00:12:43] Speaker A: That's what we did. And brought you. [00:12:46] Speaker B: Well, we've got a very sad woman named Marina, apparently. [00:12:52] Speaker A: Yes. [00:12:53] Speaker B: And she gets a thing and puts it on. Okay, there we. Yeah, she gets a thing and puts it on. She's very mad at Windcrest Foods. Yes, for poisoning someone. Okay, there we go. Yeah, apparently, somebody in her family had a peanut allergy. They forgot to put the peanut thing on the label, and somebody died. Is that about where we're getting this? [00:13:19] Speaker A: I don't know exactly, but Pat's never coming back, and that's where we're. [00:13:23] Speaker B: They put arsenic or something. Okay. Anyway, something bad happened. Somebody died. Okay, we're in Boston now. [00:13:31] Speaker A: Yep. [00:13:32] Speaker B: Midnighter is playing pool at Al's Massey. Is that how you say that? Mase? [00:13:40] Speaker A: I guess Mass Al's. Mase. The pool shot. [00:13:46] Speaker B: Right. Like it's a pool hall. Yeah. Okay. And he's hanging out playing pool with the guy we met last issue. But I have no idea what his name it. [00:13:57] Speaker A: I don't know. [00:13:57] Speaker B: This was the guy at the bar with him. [00:13:59] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:13:59] Speaker B: Well, anyway, he finds out that midnighter is now single, and he tells him he can show Midnighter some of the moves he uses on the. Yeah, yeah. And Midnighter's super not interested in. [00:14:15] Speaker A: He's like, nah. [00:14:17] Speaker B: Yeah. He's. He's like, yeah, no. And then we get to. [00:14:24] Speaker A: Oh, Tony. His name is Tony. [00:14:26] Speaker B: Tony. [00:14:27] Speaker A: Tony. [00:14:28] Speaker B: No, Skinny Tony. [00:14:30] Speaker A: Tony. [00:14:31] Speaker B: Skinny Tony. We can't call people Fat and skinny anymore. [00:14:34] Speaker A: But his name is. [00:14:40] Speaker B: Names. His name is proper body shape to your own desire. Tony. [00:14:48] Speaker A: There you go. [00:14:49] Speaker B: Right. Okay. [00:14:52] Speaker A: Bandana Tony. But there you go. [00:14:54] Speaker B: Yeah. And then we get to the next page. We're back in Oakland, and 44 people are dead, and Marina is unhappy. Apparently, Patrick Lucas is dead. We heard that before. And she says. [00:15:14] Speaker A: These are words for these. These symbols don't register anything to me. [00:15:22] Speaker B: I was going to have you say the at least beginning part in her dialogue, but anyway. [00:15:27] Speaker A: Oh, the six killing sounds. [00:15:29] Speaker B: Killing sounds. [00:15:32] Speaker A: The six killing sounds. [00:15:34] Speaker B: Not those words. The words right before it. [00:15:39] Speaker A: Patrick Lucas is dead. The restitution starts with. [00:15:44] Speaker B: Read the last three words of that bubble right there. [00:15:48] Speaker A: Lee Xiao Ju. [00:15:50] Speaker B: Thanks. I probably could have gotten that good. Just looking for the proper way to pronounce the terms there. Well, anyway, she says symbols and people start dying. Some moral of the story. [00:16:07] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:16:08] Speaker B: Okay, so she says words, people die. And then she's going through. Next page she's going through. She finds a security or a janitor. [00:16:19] Speaker A: I do want to say, I think what they might have done, and I will say this just based off of what I'm seeing here, based off of what you saw on the front cover and what you're seeing in the rest of this is that there might be a mixture of Asian inspired language and or Asian inspired symbols, because what's on the COVID is definitely Kanji and Hiragana and Katagana. So you got a mixture of those things, which are all Japanese. You got a Japanese rising sun, and then in here it looks more. Yeah, no, I just couldn't tell you. Okay, well, on that note, it could be Chinese symbols. [00:17:19] Speaker B: On that note, could be Korean symbols, generic symbols. We don't know. [00:17:24] Speaker A: It could be Korean symbols. [00:17:26] Speaker B: Well, she finds out. Next page, she finds out where the board is for the company she hates, and then she gets attacked by a bunch of security people. And murders, all of them by saying words. Are we back in there? [00:17:47] Speaker A: Yes. [00:17:48] Speaker B: Okay. And she said words that prompted a phone call. Apparently the oldest phone in the universe just rang. Is that your fax line there? Oh, you muted yourself to get your fax. Is it going, is that what's going on right now? That's amazing. Well, I'll continue on while Greg gets his facts. And so we now, all of a sudden, Midnighter makes an appearance to fight Marina. And he says she's very creative and fun. And we get the main page here. And the title of the book is Midnighter Question mark with writer Steve Orlando, artist Alec Morgan. And we get colors by Fahardo and Paso. Wow. Alan Palselqua and letters by Fletcher and Aco. And Fahardo did the COVID so we had a consistent cover artist. So now we're moving forward here and taking a look, and it looks like Midnighter's been wiped out on the next page by the word she says. And he's down. And Marina is standing up on the table talking about being in the area with the night circle. In the night circle, I would assume, of hell, talking about how she's going to take out the board, presumably, and Midnighter starts to wake up. He's like, yeah, right. Just kind of looking up at her, using his magic super computer brain to figure stuff out. And we get another page, and Midnighter's got blood all over him. Presumably Midnighter's had blood all over him for the vast majority of this series, so this isn't very uncommon. I feel like he's not comfortable. Or maybe the blood just stays on his costume. I mean, that's entirely possible. [00:20:06] Speaker A: He never really watches it. He never. I was never gone. I don't even know what you're talking about. I was here all along. Just like the blood on Midnighter. [00:20:16] Speaker B: Well, that's true. You kind of are like the blood on Midnighter. She's always kind of there. [00:20:21] Speaker A: Always kind of there. Well, anyways, in black because you can't see the blood. [00:20:27] Speaker B: Or he's Johnny cash. [00:20:29] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:20:31] Speaker B: Well, Midnighter's headed up some stairs and he's headed outside. And somehow he snuck out of the room. He's pretty good at his job. He snuck out of the room. He's using his super tactical computer to pull out his grappling hook, I guess, and ties it and swings in. And he's so good. He swings in and. Exactly. Kicks Marina in the face. [00:20:59] Speaker A: Pow. That's not very nice. [00:21:01] Speaker B: But he does well, that's how we do things. And then we get a flash forward. [00:21:08] Speaker A: Sorry. [00:21:08] Speaker B: The next day, he's in Moscow, and he's back out on a date. [00:21:15] Speaker A: But just so you know, you got to see the last issue, Chris. [00:21:21] Speaker B: Yeah, well, and this was after his other friend? No, Tony was his date. Right. That's where you're messing up. I don't think Tony was the guy in the front. [00:21:28] Speaker A: Tony was the guy at the pool hall. He even. [00:21:31] Speaker B: Tony was the guy he broke up with, right? [00:21:33] Speaker A: No, his name was Tony at the pool hall. He said, hey, Tony, yada, yada, yada. [00:21:39] Speaker B: Are you sure? Well, who did he say he broke up with at the pool hall? [00:21:43] Speaker A: I don't know, Dan. [00:21:44] Speaker B: Well, anyway, his friend, last issue that he was having sex with is no longer his friend Jason. Jason. Yeah. It's hard to keep track. There's just a lot of relationship is. [00:21:56] Speaker A: All about making friends. [00:22:01] Speaker B: He's about making friends. You know what, Midnighter? About making friends. I'm going to officially change the title of this book. Midnighter about making friends. The new title of this book. Now he's talking to his new friend, because when I met you, I was wearing. Or his friend says, when I met you, I was wearing an exploded entree and with a Midoran gun to my head. Okay, that's exciting. We remember that from last. [00:22:37] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah. [00:22:38] Speaker B: And now they're in Moscow. It's good times. [00:22:42] Speaker A: Oh, this is the guy. [00:22:43] Speaker B: This is the other guy took out on the date. Yeah, to Moscow. [00:22:49] Speaker A: No, but this is. No, that was Jason. He took to Moscow. And this is the dude that was on the floor. [00:22:54] Speaker B: The floor. Now he took another guy to Moscow. He's good at finding people. [00:22:57] Speaker A: This is the guy. Yeah, he picked this guy up off the floor. He literally. He's making midnighters, making friends. [00:23:07] Speaker B: Making friends everywhere. [00:23:10] Speaker A: He's making them well. And he's taking them all over the world. [00:23:15] Speaker B: He definitely is wearing an amazing tank top here. An American flag tank top. It's exactly. Always what I thought Midnighter would be wearing. [00:23:25] Speaker A: Just like, hey, I'm just wearing jeans and an American flag tank top like I just rolled out of Old Navy. [00:23:33] Speaker B: Yeah, that's like. That's an interesting artistic. Just based on what we've read so far, it didn't seem like Steve Orlando would put him in the top. Maybe Steve Apollo would, but Steve Orlando, probably. [00:23:49] Speaker A: I mean. Well, is it just because he's in Moscow, but he's dressing like an American? [00:23:55] Speaker B: I guess. I mean, it seems to be what happens when you change artists, though, right? Midstream. I mean, in the second um, anyway, let's get to the next page. [00:24:06] Speaker A: I can also see the hair thing in this one now. [00:24:10] Speaker B: Yeah, let's get the next page. Okay, so they're in Moscow, right? [00:24:14] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:24:15] Speaker B: All right, so we have to have the obligatory point out of how much Russians take gay people and he beats them up. All right, great. Super excited to see this in a comic. Yay. [00:24:29] Speaker A: Yep. Puts his fingers right up in the nose. [00:24:33] Speaker B: Yeah. That was a great response on your part, too. I mean, I hate this scene, quite frankly. [00:24:38] Speaker A: I mean, your question last time we recorded was about is representation. Are certain things, are they put into things for a reason? Is this type of thing put in for. I guess we understand the context. We know that, like you said, you pointed out Russians don't like gay people. [00:25:14] Speaker B: Yes, I pointed that out, and we'll get into that in a second. [00:25:19] Speaker A: And is this scene overly extraordinary for that reason? [00:25:28] Speaker B: It's like a punch of Nazi scene. Right. But my problem here is, okay, this guy says that real men drink here, blah, blah, blah. I get what he's saying. He tells him his girlfriend to leave. There's no slurs here, which I'm glad there's probably no slur in the book, right? [00:25:47] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:25:48] Speaker B: But when we're having to punch a Nazi thing, right. It's okay because there's an identifiable piece like the person's identifying as a Nazi. Right. Okay. And I understand that Russians pass laws that are anti gay and have pursued gay people and all that. And I know that the government is anti gay, but I really don't like this. There's just no reason for it in the story, right. It just shows up, right? All of a sudden they're out drinking in a bar in Russia, and then all of a sudden they get in a. Like, why are they there? Right. Because they just wanted to go to, like, was he going there to intentionally pick a fight on a date for the first time? [00:26:39] Speaker A: Yeah, no, this is good. This is a good question. [00:26:47] Speaker B: What is the point? [00:26:48] Speaker A: Yeah, what's the point? And is it necessary for the sake of being there? [00:26:59] Speaker B: Is it violence for the sake of violence? It's this strikeout thing. Like, I'm gay, I got picked on, so now I'm going to beat the shit out of somebody. Right? It really pisses me off. It also, I'm getting madder about it as I think about it. It's just like, yeah, have I wanted to do this to somebody else? I mean, you know me, so for a billion reasons, I wanted to do that to somebody else, but I've been. [00:27:26] Speaker A: With you when things like this have happened. [00:27:29] Speaker B: Yes, but I didn't put you into the ground, which I could have easily done. [00:27:35] Speaker A: You didn't act out in that way because. [00:27:38] Speaker B: You have seen me at my very worst. When somebody verbally did things that were they actually verbally assaulted, it could have. [00:27:50] Speaker A: Required this type of action against them because of what they said. But it didn't get it because you are a different person than this shows this type of. [00:28:06] Speaker B: There's also, to me, maybe he's just extremely confident, but there's a lot more trauma that goes with something like this anyway. [00:28:15] Speaker A: Yeah. All right. No, your point? I totally get what you're saying because I see a lot of this sometimes in other stories and other things, and it's like, why put characters in a situation like that if it doesn't serve a purpose outside of just showing a violent act for a violent act's sake, doesn't drive the story anymore. Do you give us any context as to who this person is and why they would do this? [00:28:48] Speaker B: Yeah. In contrast. Right. Like, I grabbed a Kickstarter book by Joe Glass called Glitter Vipers, which was an intentionally grindhouse piece, and basically a drag queen and a group of folks go out and beat up Pete. Gay bashers. But it's a grindhouse piece. There's camp to it. It's pretty clear the other people are just really bad. [00:29:15] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:29:16] Speaker B: Like, it was almost fun. Right. In the sense of it. Yeah. You know, like, this is not fun. [00:29:23] Speaker A: Yeah. And they had a purpose for what they were doing. This is just like, I'm going to fight this guy in a bar because he moderately said something that I don't agree with. [00:29:38] Speaker B: And just side note. Side note. [00:29:41] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:29:41] Speaker B: Go grab some of Joe Glass's stuff on Kickstarter. He's great. [00:29:45] Speaker A: It's good stuff. [00:29:47] Speaker B: It's good stuff. Everything I've gotten from Joe Glass has been phenomenal. If you want to talk about representation. There you go. [00:29:55] Speaker A: Well, then people go find those Kickstarters. Find Joe Glass. And if he's not running a campaign right now, they're not running campaign. The team there, then save it in your saves. Save it. [00:30:08] Speaker B: Yeah. I think he just finished up a campaign, but he's got some projects he loves, too. He's really good about reaching out and letting you know. [00:30:19] Speaker A: So then there's good suggestions then. I love it when people that are running kickstarters throw out those suggestions because if there's stuff that they like that's on their radar, then you should check it out, too. [00:30:31] Speaker B: Yeah. And again, I'm probably overanalyzing this one page and this next page, but I guess, again, it is funny book forensics, you're listening to where we analyze the story in the book and things like that. And I'm making comparisons. You all may disagree with me, and that's okay. I mean, if you do reach out to us, we're happy to. [00:30:52] Speaker A: Your comparison to you. Analyzing this is like when Sawul and I on nurse in the crypt talk about a movie that has a rape scene in it. And it's just like, at that point, I just check out. Because what's the point of having that in there? It doesn't drive the story. It doesn't need to be in there. [00:31:13] Speaker B: Yes. [00:31:13] Speaker A: And we could have just done without that movie at all. [00:31:16] Speaker B: Well, it's like violence for the sake of violence, right? And then they just leave. And the only comment from his friend here is he asked him if he washed his hands. [00:31:27] Speaker A: Yeah. Well, because he had his fingers up. This guy's, you know, who knows? [00:31:32] Speaker B: That's gross. [00:31:33] Speaker A: Who knows? [00:31:34] Speaker B: Well, we're back in Oakland again in the earlier time. So we went the next day, and now we're earlier. Okay, this is interesting how this flows. [00:31:45] Speaker A: Yeah. On her body. Oh, my gosh. It's like a face hugger. It's a face hugger on her chest. [00:31:53] Speaker B: Well, he breaks her tech, basically, is what's happened. And she got her tech from that Garden place, I think, Garden Grove. [00:32:01] Speaker A: Oh, that's just down the street from. It's just a couple of hours. [00:32:05] Speaker B: Yeah. I took a trip to Garden Grove, and it smelled like Blue Dog inside the van. Did it. [00:32:11] Speaker A: Oh, man. [00:32:12] Speaker B: Yeah, I went to a record party. $2 at the door. FEels so. Anyway, awesome. Yeah. All one person that gets what I'm doing right now. [00:32:31] Speaker A: I get what you're doing. [00:32:37] Speaker B: We're back in, and Midnighter takes out her tech, and everybody thinks they're safe because, of course they do, because he saved them from the crazy lady. Marina. Right? [00:32:47] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:32:48] Speaker B: And then he starts breaking hands of the board members while Marina watches. And she looks terrified. Know, again, maybe the only sane person in here. She was striking out in rage, and now she's watching somebody commit the violence that she was about to do. [00:33:05] Speaker A: And she's like, what's going on? [00:33:07] Speaker B: Wow. [00:33:09] Speaker A: He's shaking and breaking. Shaking and breaking. [00:33:13] Speaker B: So now they go back to Moscow for what's called the victory lap here, which I presume is a victory lap for both things. Beating up the person in the bar and breaking the hands of the people in the board. And honestly mean I'm less offended by him breaking the hands of people that presumably murdered people. [00:33:37] Speaker A: They did something wrong. [00:33:38] Speaker B: Punch a Nazi type thing. [00:33:39] Speaker A: Yeah, there was more context as to what they had done wrong then. [00:33:48] Speaker B: Oh, there's enough context. They murdered a bunch of people by ignoring warnings and stuff. [00:33:54] Speaker A: No, there's all that context. The other thing. Yeah, but the other guys are just. [00:33:59] Speaker B: People at a bar who are assholes. [00:34:01] Speaker A: Yeah, assholes. Jerk faces. [00:34:05] Speaker B: I wish I could beat up every asshole. [00:34:07] Speaker A: Oh, man, you'd have a lot. [00:34:09] Speaker B: I don't. It's the cool point. You'd have grown ups. [00:34:14] Speaker A: You'd have just a pile of assholes. [00:34:18] Speaker B: Well, Moscow victory lap. Not going to touch that one. So now they're having a nice conversation. It's him and Matt again. And they're wandering around Moscow and they're chatting it up. Next page. And they're about to have some barbecue. Barbecue shoshglin. And he starts talking about Andrew again. And Matt's asking about, oh, he's like, I hope I measure up because all midnighter is doing is talking about Andrew. This is some gay drama at its finest right here. [00:35:04] Speaker A: Yeah, well, I mean, I just watched. [00:35:06] Speaker B: This in season one of Queer as folk where Michael can only talk about Brian with his new boyfriend. All the. [00:35:13] Speaker A: Mean it is just general relationship stuff. You're with somebody new and all you can do is talk about the old stuff. [00:35:21] Speaker B: That must be great for the new person. [00:35:25] Speaker A: Just imagine, one, their self worth meters just continually going down every time you mention the other person. [00:35:33] Speaker B: Right? [00:35:33] Speaker A: And then secondly, they're continually like he said, just how do I measure up? Because every time midnighter says something about Andrew, the self worth has gone down and the bar has just risen up higher and higher and higher. [00:35:56] Speaker B: Yeah, well, when we flip the page, and we flip the page and we get another flashback to months earlier in Opal City. And who is the most prominent member of City? [00:36:15] Speaker A: Richie Rich? [00:36:17] Speaker B: No. [00:36:22] Speaker A: Andrew? [00:36:23] Speaker B: No. [00:36:25] Speaker A: Apollo? [00:36:28] Speaker B: No. [00:36:30] Speaker A: Midnighter? [00:36:31] Speaker B: No. [00:36:33] Speaker A: I don't know. [00:36:35] Speaker B: It's James Robinson's probably most famous comic book series. Tell me, Star Man. [00:36:47] Speaker A: Never. Never heard of it. Never heard of it. [00:36:55] Speaker B: Okay, fine. The Elongated man in Sue Dibney also lived there for a while. [00:37:01] Speaker A: Never heard of it. [00:37:03] Speaker B: Oh, my God, you're making me so frustrated right now. [00:37:07] Speaker A: I don't even know what that means. [00:37:12] Speaker B: Opal City. Star Man. [00:37:15] Speaker A: I thought that movie was like, you find a man out in the woods that doesn't know anything about the world, what are you going to do? He just points to the sky. [00:37:35] Speaker B: Honestly, you know what? I'm totally okay with this because you did not make a joke about midnighter living in the city where the most famous superhero carries around a cosmic rod. So I'm glad you didn't do that. [00:37:52] Speaker A: That would be. [00:37:53] Speaker B: I'm actually okay with all of the rest of everything you said. [00:37:57] Speaker A: That would be very uncool of you. Yeah. [00:38:04] Speaker B: Why would you do that? Why would you make a joke? Like, so. I'm totally glad you didn't go into that territory because I just realized where that could have gone. And then I was like, you know what? All of this was fine. Well, we are in Opal City, and there is Andrew and Lucas, who's not Lucas. [00:38:28] Speaker A: He's Lucas with a lid off because he has all. Look at all his hair. [00:38:33] Speaker B: Look at all that hair. I do. Yeah. [00:38:35] Speaker A: I don't like it. I don't like it at all. [00:38:37] Speaker B: You don't like it because you've only seen it without. You've seen his post breakup haircut. [00:38:42] Speaker A: Yeah, it's much better. Post breakup haircuts are always much better. [00:38:47] Speaker B: Post breakup haircuts are almost always better. [00:38:50] Speaker A: That's his comfortable haircut. We're comfortable. I'm okay. I'm going to wear my hair, like, kind of finger length and messy, not edgy and cool. Like I could be in a boy band. [00:39:04] Speaker B: Well, Apollo's got a shirt on two sizes too tight, which I'm okay with. [00:39:13] Speaker A: Richie Rich. [00:39:14] Speaker B: And here we go. Well, they get into it. They're fighting, and Midnighter's self loathing. You're right. He is the emo boy. What am I supposed to say? Midnighter is just a nameless homeless fight robot. You deserve better. Oh, my God. Okay. Yeah. And then Andrew starts yelling at him back, complaining he still works. Then Midnighter, Lucas slash Midnighter, kisses him and then leaves because. [00:39:53] Speaker A: Okay, I already know how it's going to end. [00:39:56] Speaker B: Flash back, over. [00:39:57] Speaker A: Yeah. Done. [00:39:58] Speaker B: Yeah, he knows how it's going to end because he has a fight computer. [00:40:02] Speaker A: Oh, man. [00:40:04] Speaker B: Well, now Marina is in jail in Massachusetts. Were they in Oakland? [00:40:12] Speaker A: Yes. [00:40:13] Speaker B: That is Marina, right? Yeah, it is. Okay, so they're talking. [00:40:18] Speaker A: Yes, I think so. [00:40:19] Speaker B: She's in Massachusetts, in jail. That's one hell of an extradition treaty right there. [00:40:25] Speaker A: Unless he's in Massachusetts and she's in jail. [00:40:30] Speaker B: Okay, that's possible. But it does say Bridgewater, Massachusetts, right over her. [00:40:35] Speaker A: It's a comic book. Sometimes they mess those things up. I mean. What? [00:40:39] Speaker B: Oh, you would never mess something up in your comic book. [00:40:43] Speaker A: Yeah, no, totally. [00:40:45] Speaker B: I've read all of them, and they're all perfect. So now we're. [00:40:52] Speaker A: Now she's talking. I'm crying because it's not true. When an artist calls after something like this has happened and said, how could you let this happen? I'm like, you drew it. You drew it. You wrote it. [00:41:12] Speaker B: Well, now they're talking, and Midnighter heads down corridor of some sort. [00:41:19] Speaker A: Oh, man, it's going to go bad. [00:41:22] Speaker B: Is it? I don't know. They're chatting. I mean, they're friends now because they have something in common. [00:41:27] Speaker A: Yeah, because she did the right thing the wrong way, just like him did. [00:41:31] Speaker B: The wrong thing the right way. And we see Midnighter, and all of a sudden, there's a guy that looks a lot like multiplex in the background. You want to guess what multiplex's powers are? [00:41:45] Speaker A: He can show a bunch of movies on multiple screens. [00:41:49] Speaker B: That's exactly it. [00:41:50] Speaker A: Oh, my gosh. I am good. [00:41:53] Speaker B: Yeah. He is the multiplex. [00:41:55] Speaker A: Oh, man. Kind of looks like OMAC. [00:41:58] Speaker B: He does not look like OMaC. [00:42:00] Speaker A: I'm just joking. Midnighter looks like Midnighter. [00:42:04] Speaker B: Looks like OMAC. [00:42:05] Speaker A: Okay. With his cowling off. [00:42:07] Speaker B: Yeah, Midnighter sort of looks like Midnighter. [00:42:11] Speaker A: It's like Batman when he doesn't have the cowl on. [00:42:17] Speaker B: Midnighter is kind of looking, like, in this know where he's going into the subway. He sort of looks like, you know, like when we were little kids, and you'd go to Kmart, whatever, and it would be like the fake superhero that looks just like the real superhero and has a slightly different name. Yeah, Batman. It would be like, I don't know, cockroach man or something like that. [00:42:47] Speaker A: Yes. Oh, blue Beetle. Yeah. [00:42:50] Speaker B: No, stop it. [00:42:52] Speaker A: I'm just joking. Cockroach man. Yes. [00:42:59] Speaker B: And anyway, he's kind of looking like that. He's definitely a lurker here, too. [00:43:04] Speaker A: Oh, yeah. He's, like, walking in, like, oh, hey. [00:43:08] Speaker B: But anyway, he starts laughing, and he's all excited. Marina's like, why? What are you laughing at? And then Midnighter turns around, and multiplex is, like, everywhere. He's on all the screens. Everywhere. He's on every screen. Yep. And it says. Because it's a comic book. To be continued. [00:43:32] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:43:33] Speaker B: And then we flip a page, and it says he can predict your every move, but no one can predict what he'll do next. Are you ready? Midnighter by Steve Orlando and Aco as an advertisement in a comic book where they have a backup artist for. Okay, so, you know, I understand that bad marketing happens sometimes. Number one, why are you running a house ad for your own book in the same book. [00:44:04] Speaker A: Page count. [00:44:07] Speaker B: But wouldn't you run a house ad for one of the other new DCU books? [00:44:13] Speaker A: No, because would that make more sense? Turn the page, Dan. You're going to have your mind blown right out of your skull. [00:44:21] Speaker B: The new twO. Yeah. There are all these different house ads. They could have run, like, maybe for that amazing Dr. Fate series. [00:44:33] Speaker A: Nobody cares. [00:44:34] Speaker B: That came out. Nobody hate you. So anyway, yeah. What about another Canary series? [00:44:46] Speaker A: Nobody cares. [00:44:47] Speaker B: Batman beyond or Starfire or. [00:44:50] Speaker A: You know why they ran a Midnighter ad? You know why they ran a midnighter ad in a midnight. You want to know? Because people that are reading Midnighter are here for Midnighter, and Midnighter is here to make friends. [00:45:05] Speaker B: Come on. It's really stupid to run a house ad for the stupid. [00:45:12] Speaker A: I'm with you. I think they could have run any of these other ads. There's nine other advertisements that they could have run. [00:45:20] Speaker B: I mean, why are we reading this? We could be reading the Paul Levitt Sunny Lou Dr. Fate book that came out at the exact same time as this. [00:45:28] Speaker A: Know, because you chose. [00:45:35] Speaker B: Yep. [00:45:35] Speaker A: For good reasons. [00:45:37] Speaker B: For good reasons. Well, I mean, again, I choose a book for June because we decided to choose a book for June, and then I just complain about the representation in the book. For the entire book. [00:45:54] Speaker A: No, but I find it great because there are tons of other books that we could have read, but we chose a mainstream ish, like a book that wasn't mainstream, that became mainstream, that has representation, but is, I'm going to say, a mixed bag of representation. [00:46:12] Speaker B: Sure. That's fair. Yeah. [00:46:15] Speaker A: And, I mean, we could have read anything from a myriad of different kickstarters. We could have read cardboard kingdoms. We could have read anything out there. And this is what we're reading, and it brings to light at a lot of different things, draws a lot of questions as to different types of things, and I think it's exactly what we need for bunny boat forensics to analyze something. [00:46:51] Speaker B: Yeah, if it was perfect, then it wouldn't be very much fun to analyze. [00:46:55] Speaker A: Yeah, exactly. If it was perfect. In a perfect world where everything was perfect, representation was on point, and everything was just the way that we wanted it, why would we want to discuss it except for to just say, go read this. It's a great book. There you go. That's all you need to know. [00:47:21] Speaker B: Yeah. And I certainly am criticizing some pieces of it, obviously. Right. But I think the other. There are pieces I like about it. Right. In the sense that you're watching somebody's life play out. It's not like they're going out of their way to make him a stereotype or anything. Yeah, there are good pieces, but then just some of it seems really forced, right? It's like go to a bar and beat up a homophobe. [00:47:56] Speaker A: I think they're telling a relationship story from a standpoint of they're telling a story that has relationships in it from a standpoint of a gay character and putting in a couple of things that may make sense. They make sense. Okay, this guy has these issues, but we're not going to really get into them. And this other guy may have. [00:48:28] Speaker B: He. [00:48:29] Speaker A: Could have said these things, but we didn't see it in the panel. We didn't see it in the page. It's kind of difficult to tear up or whatever. But also, Midnighter might have his own baggage in the background. [00:48:45] Speaker B: Right. [00:48:45] Speaker A: That we just don't know. As new readers of the new 52, if you hadn't read any of this in the past. [00:48:52] Speaker B: This is the DCU. [00:48:54] Speaker A: Yes, I'm sorry, the DCU. I apologize. [00:48:57] Speaker B: Y ou, well, it's hard to keep track of all their relaunches, admittedly. But yeah, it's a story, and it will keep going next week as we do issue three. [00:49:09] Speaker A: But here's a question, and this is just for my own, and maybe, you know, as far as we're speaking, representation from the creative team that put this together, do you know anything about the background of the creative teams that have worked on this book, and how does that play into their creation of these characters? And are they writing and creating a story that is okay, we're telling the story that is this and. [00:49:45] Speaker B: We'Re just. [00:49:45] Speaker A: Telling the story, or we're telling the story. And we have this input because this is from our own. [00:49:55] Speaker B: Orlando. Steve Orlando had a couple runs at the know citing the best source ever, Wikipedia. But we're going to cite the link here in Wikipedia in a second. But, yeah, I mean, he got nominated for some awards for some of this stuff, and then I guess he says, this was one of the 20 best comics for 2015 by somebody and, oh, these are opinion pieces. Somebody in GIDs. Moto says Midnighter is the best portrayal of a gay superhero in mainstream comics in a July 1, 2015 article. Obviously, somebody thought differently than I did. I certainly bought them. [00:51:01] Speaker A: Yeah. I'm imagining at the time prior to 2015, you're going in and you're finding not a whole lot of representation in your mainstream comics. [00:51:16] Speaker B: No, you're finding more and more. But yeah. [00:51:21] Speaker A: I guess my question is, was it more like, do you feel like it's true. [00:51:32] Speaker B: If we're saying mainstream comics, then sure. Right. Yeah. I could see the fact that there is representation then that's, I guess, a success. But, yeah. [00:51:51] Speaker A: Getting a lot more now. [00:51:55] Speaker B: I guess. I mean, really, several years later. [00:52:00] Speaker A: More or less. I guess you're getting it more on the imprints and more. Not in the straight up ones, the big two more in their imprints and definitely a lot of the independence, for sure. [00:52:19] Speaker B: I would agree with that. Or there's a lot of kicks, but there's just also a lot of different ways to get characters. Right. And then to, I guess, at least, well, I mean, it's three years out of date now, but I don't know the sort of transformation that Connor and Palmiati did with Harlequin and things like, know where it was just. Harlequin was just bisexual. Right. It wasn't a big deal. [00:52:51] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:52:52] Speaker B: And she could sleep with men or she could sleep with Poison ivy. Right. Like, it just was part of the story and then she was Harlequin. Right. Yeah. There's different levels, I guess. And obviously that version of the character is still going on and obviously might as well bring it up, the controversial cartoon that DC Comics just censored. So I wasn't even bridging to that. But they're still using that version of the character. Right. Even after Connor and Palmiati have left the company and are doing their own stuff, they're now using that as a cartoon. And so obviously there was the Batman controversy, but I guess that wasn't really my focus. You watch the cartoon and it's farcical with some of the characters and things like that, but the character is very fluid with her sexuality. [00:53:51] Speaker A: Right. [00:53:51] Speaker B: So, I mean, I think you have had some interesting presentations in mainstream comics, but, yeah, this is, I don't want to say problematic. I mean, I think people like it. Right. Like it won awards. But then to me, what I don't like, I think we were pointing it out like you pointed out the same as in the Grindhouse movies or something like that, to create a violent rape scene for the sake of having a blind lace hume. Or in horror. Right. Or back to Gail Simone's women in refrigerators. Original blog post. Right. The whole notion of creating violence just for violence sake. And in this case, it doesn't even really drive the story. Right. Like, I could read both issues of the story without him ever beating up that guy in the bar. [00:54:41] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:54:42] Speaker B: It doesn't impact the story at all. [00:54:47] Speaker A: It's almost like there's two bar scenes in these two issues that you could not even have in there. In my opinion, the whole entire dialogue heavy bar scene that happens in issue one and then the whole entire fight scene in this one. Like you're saying they're null. [00:55:12] Speaker B: They're just dead points in the story. Yeah. [00:55:16] Speaker A: They don't bring anything to the table. [00:55:18] Speaker B: It's like a good editor would have cut that out or a bad editor cut it in a way that made these seem to make no sense. [00:55:29] Speaker A: Possibly. I mean, we're not there in the room or with the notes to tell. But I guess from a reader's perspective, and maybe even from a learning perspective for anybody that's out there that's wanting to create things on their own. If you're creating scenes and you read them back and it leaves nothing to one, the imagination or doesn't give you any desired effect, what's the point? And then two, if there's either too much information that's left out because we don't know why he's acting out or why a character is acting out, or why a character would even be put into a situation that this type of thing would happen, what's the pOint? [00:56:21] Speaker B: Yeah, exactly. Or give me some character development. Right. Instead of that scene, let me find out more about Matt. Like, if you really want representation, let's find out why these two people are interested in each other. [00:56:34] Speaker A: Yeah, exactly. Was it a little bit of little hero worship action? [00:56:42] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:56:42] Speaker A: And all of us, literal and figurative. Midnighter is a figurative hero in his eyes, but he is a literal hero because he saved him. Is that why this date is happening? Like 100%? And all of a sudden it's like, oh, hey, now I'm like a spectator in your life on this other one. [00:57:08] Speaker B: That's really all I'm digging for here. Interesting. Yeah. I mean, interesting story. I don't know if I'd call it a good story, but it was pretty basic. Honestly, I'm not going to call it a good story. Right. I thought it was pretty basic in the sense that the plot was pretty basic. [00:57:26] Speaker A: Right. [00:57:26] Speaker B: It seemed a lot. Wow. I'm really getting critical, but it seemed very contrived. Right. We're going to introduce a character in the beginning. She's going to have an arbitrary thing happen to her family. She seems to be a one off character in the story, which I'm okay with one off stories, but she's written out of the story real fast. So who seems to be the focus of the story is almost written out of the story almost immediately, right. And then reappears at the end. For some reason, we're not really sure why Midnighter is talking to her or why they share something in common for some reason. Is it their rage they share in common? Perhaps. I mean, we're not there yet, so, I mean, I probably should give Orlando a chance to get there. Right characters. So I'm probably rushing to judgment there. Well, assuming that character even shows up. [00:58:19] Speaker A: Again, you make a good point, though. We're introduced to this character and for the reasons that they're even brought into the story, where it's glossed over. Like, okay, so someone they love died at the hands of these people, but how and why? It's very loose. It's very loose. And it's like, okay, yes, death is bad, and we've all had bad things happen. We can understand that. But a little bit more gives us a little more buy in and makes it a little more tangible for us to want to follow along with that. But then just pop them back out of the story and make them not there at all. And also kind of, like, not really explain their power set that they're using or their device outside of, okay, it's words. And how does it affect the people? Is it, like, churning their insides? Is it destroying their ears? Is it making them explode? Whatever. I mean, I was kind of lost. And how is midnighter avoiding this? Because I would miss that as well. Maybe I'm dumb. Maybe I'm a dumb. I don't know. [00:59:38] Speaker B: I don't think so. I think it is very interesting, but this will continue. [00:59:46] Speaker A: No, actually, I want to know what happens with multiplex. I want to know what's showing on the screens. I want to know what movie he's going to see. Is it going to be the new Fast and the Furious? I hope so. But then again, also, I hear there's other films out there that you could see as well. [01:00:03] Speaker B: Yeah, I just thought multiplex was a representation for the repetitiveness of movies and retelling of storylines. By having somebody named Multiplex with the same uniform all over the place. Yeah. [01:00:21] Speaker A: Oh, yeah, totally. That makes sense. [01:00:23] Speaker B: That's what it is, right? [01:00:24] Speaker A: Yeah. [01:00:25] Speaker B: Well, on that note, this conversation cannot continue. [01:00:29] Speaker A: Okay? You're killing it now because Cthulhu has told you to end it. [01:00:35] Speaker B: Well, Cthulhu does run my life in the Lords of Order, which would have made an appearance if we read Dr. Fate by Paul Levinson, Sonny Liu. However, we didn't choose that. We chose Midnighter by Steve Orlando. So yeah, we could have had an appearance of the Lords of Order, but in this case, we have a midnighter story and that's going to bring the end of the Midnighter story. Do you have anything going on that I need to know about on this podcast? [01:01:08] Speaker A: I have nothing going on that you need to know about or that I'm allowed to know about that you are allowed to know about? Nothing at all. [01:01:17] Speaker B: Okay. Well then on that note, one Listener. Thank you for listening. Thank you, mothership. Thank you for listening, John. Hope you feel better soon. Anything else? [01:01:30] Speaker A: Oh, you know what? Well, I mean, stay tuned. I'm sure the mothership will announce and talk about and divulge this information as John, who we just mentioned, is key and instrumental in all those things. But the InEs anthology, which myself and Travis and a myriad of other fantastic creators, writers, artists and other folks, and John was the man in charge of the whole entire EINz anthology, is actually out and about in the world, and he will be getting it out to folks. And I think he wants to do something at the Retro Emporium. [01:02:15] Speaker B: Oh, okay. Well, I love the Retro Emporium. And sometimes anyway. No, that's not true. All the time. I threw you through a lip there, didn't. [01:02:32] Speaker A: No, no, my grandma. [01:02:35] Speaker B: Okay, well, on that note then, thank you for listening to this episode of Funny book Forensics. I'm Dan. [01:02:40] Speaker A: And I'm Greg. [01:02:41] Speaker B: And we're out of here. Until next time.