Funny Book Forensics 268 Harlan Ellison Cut

[00:00:00] Speaker A: Purpose. Dan, it's not like I sit there. Oh, it is. I mean, everything that was said before could be edited out. It's not like everybody's going to be upset because we're going through statistics to find out about one listener. [00:00:19] Speaker B: I could do what you. I could start doing if we did a video podcast. I could do what they do on the wrestling podcast that I used to listen to where they have G Raf sit in for the people that don't have cameras. [00:00:32] Speaker A: What is G Raf? Is it. [00:00:34] Speaker B: G RaF is a stuffed giraffe. [00:00:36] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:00:37] Speaker B: That sits in the corner of the room, and they just focus on G Raff when the other person is talking. [00:00:42] Speaker A: Okay, so you'd have something like that for me? Yeah, because my camera is funky. I'll get it fixed, I promise. I'll either pull this thing apart. Now that I did find the tools while I was cleaning the office, it. [00:00:57] Speaker B: Should still be loose, I think. [00:00:59] Speaker A: No, I have to unscrew the bottom part to be able to pull it up to get the. [00:01:05] Speaker B: You don't. [00:01:05] Speaker A: Yes, I do. [00:01:06] Speaker B: I tried. [00:01:08] Speaker A: Trust me. [00:01:09] Speaker B: Okay. [00:01:10] Speaker A: I did. You had to pull off the plastic, and then you had to pull off the screws to be able to get into the one part to be able to pull it up. [00:01:18] Speaker B: Oh, so I maybe didn't do it then. [00:01:21] Speaker A: No, I never did this thing before. [00:01:25] Speaker B: I think it's for you. [00:01:28] Speaker A: What? [00:01:28] Speaker B: Well, anyway. Okay, enough. [00:01:30] Speaker A: I know that you talk. Enough of that. [00:01:34] Speaker B: Enough of that. [00:01:35] Speaker A: I'll figure back to our statistics. [00:01:40] Speaker B: All right, well, you can start recording now. [00:01:42] Speaker A: It is recording now. I never stopped. It is. [00:01:46] Speaker B: Oh, my God. Why? All right, well. [00:01:54] Speaker A: Because this is the important stuff that people want to know. [00:01:56] Speaker B: Dan, this is the worst start of the podcast ever. [00:01:59] Speaker A: No, this is the best start. This is the real start. This is real talk. [00:02:09] Speaker B: These are the things people want to know. [00:02:11] Speaker A: They want to know this about. [00:02:17] Speaker B: I've got a broken computer for Greg, and it took me months, months to fix it. We bought two different screens for it. We finally got one that works. I put it all together at one point, and the gravitational sensor didn't work, and the screen would just be sideways all the time. And then I took it back apart again, and I got that to work. But then the touch screen thing, the touch screen little ribbon was split, so his touch screen doesn't work. But it is an I seven, and so it's much better than his old laptop. [00:02:57] Speaker A: Super fast. [00:02:58] Speaker B: It is super fast. And then somehow I taped over the camera. So when Greg is on screen, which is really great for a podcast for me to explain to you. Greg looks like I lit a fire in his house, and he's standing in the fire. [00:03:12] Speaker A: It's super smoky. It's what it looks like. It just looks like. But see, that's the thing is, you went through, you did all the work to get me a really fast, great production computer. And in all honesty, all those other things don't necessarily matter, because everything I need it for, it does. All those things. The things that it doesn't do because of those minor things, those are whatever. So when people want to talk to me and they want to see my face on the thing, I'm like, oh, I'm sorry, this is what I look like. I did a whole entire Zoom meeting just like that. [00:03:48] Speaker B: Of course you did. I think the best part is, too, all of our one listeners out there, if you want to reach out to GK Wordsmith or at GK Wordsmith on Twitter and let Greg know how to set up an ancient 480 P camera, a USB port, and get windows ten to recognize it, since I know that every camera Greg owns came out of. [00:04:13] Speaker A: A bin at Goodwill, I was literally rebinning it back. I was giving it back goodwill, because this thing is. I'm at the point where I want to just connect a connect. [00:04:27] Speaker B: I think what I'm going to do for these episodes, especially maybe for next week, if we do a watch along, is we should start a GoFundMe for Greg's camera. Let's see if we can raise Greg $100 so he can buy a basic logitech camera and attach it to the top of his laptop screen, and then he could have it there instead of the old camera and go fund me for Greg. [00:04:53] Speaker A: This is now making me want to just pull the computer apart and try to fix the existing so we could do a live repair session. I'll get stressed out, and I'll break. [00:05:07] Speaker B: This thing, and I'll be talking you through the repair, which will make it even more stressful. [00:05:13] Speaker A: Very well. [00:05:16] Speaker B: We're talking about the city on the edge of Forever. [00:05:20] Speaker A: Yes. [00:05:23] Speaker B: And if you were a Star Trek character, who would you be and why? Original series only. [00:05:28] Speaker A: Who, me? [00:05:29] Speaker B: Yeah, original series only. So you're going to take somebody who was never on the actual TV show? Oh, I'm not supposed to say that yet. Spoiler alert, this comic is not the actual show we'll watch next. What? [00:05:52] Speaker A: Geez, Dan, how could you do that to me? [00:05:54] Speaker B: The words of the original teleplay. [00:05:56] Speaker A: Oh, my gosh. Who would I be? [00:06:01] Speaker B: Please give us a mainline character, a mainline character. [00:06:05] Speaker A: You know, I'd be. It's a tough. Always. I always liked Scotty as a kid just because he was just so funny to me, but just the fact that he lived in. [00:06:24] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:06:25] Speaker A: Made it even better. So I don't. [00:06:28] Speaker B: Yeah. Plus, Scotty and didn't, like, take his ashes into space, probably. [00:06:35] Speaker A: I wouldn't doubt it. They probably did. I know for a long time you could ride the monorail, and when he was alive, if you were lucky enough, on one of the days he was riding it, he would just say, hey, how's it going? Because he'd be riding the monorail around the city. It only went from here to there. But that's what he did in his days. [00:06:59] Speaker B: Yeah, well, I would want to be Khan Noon Singh. [00:07:06] Speaker A: And why? [00:07:08] Speaker B: Well, because he destroys everything and takes over the world and the universe and stuff. Who doesn't want to be that? [00:07:17] Speaker A: Who doesn't want to be that here? I just want to be a guy that makes everybody laugh, and it's just super nice. And you want to destroy everything. Wow. [00:07:27] Speaker B: I want everybody to bend to my will. Gee, it seems completely reasonable. I don't know why you're questioning this. [00:07:35] Speaker A: I'm not questioning it. I ask why. Not for me, but for our one listener. [00:07:42] Speaker B: That's fair. [00:07:44] Speaker A: They might want to know. [00:07:47] Speaker B: Well, that's unfortunate that they want to know why. I mean, if they've watched it. Everybody wants to be con, right? [00:07:55] Speaker A: It's like, everybody wants to be con. My alarm clock is going off. Oh, my God. Sorry. [00:08:03] Speaker B: Was that the alarm clock? To record the podcast? Since we started early, yes. It's good to know now we're on time. We have started on time. [00:08:13] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:08:13] Speaker B: From our undisclosed bunkers somewhere outside of the Seattle Tacoma area. [00:08:20] Speaker A: Yes. [00:08:23] Speaker B: Well, we made it all the way to issue five of this magnificent tale. And that, of course, was originally written by Harlan Allison and adapted by Scott and David Tipton, art by JK Woodward, letters by Neil Utake. I've said his name differently each podcast. So, Neil, reach out to us and let me know how dumb I am, because I can't say your name. Editor Chris Ryl. And of course, we have at least the main covers by one orts. So great stuff here. And we have been loving this so far. [00:09:01] Speaker A: Oh, yeah, it's super good. It is super good. [00:09:04] Speaker B: I found something interesting. [00:09:06] Speaker A: Oh, really? What'd you find? [00:09:08] Speaker B: So, you know, since we have the non Snyder Cut episodes, the Harlan Allison cut, I found out that the Snyder cut is going to be 4 hours long. [00:09:19] Speaker A: 4 hours long? That's longer than Titanic. [00:09:24] Speaker B: That's longer than Gone with the Wind, isn't it? [00:09:26] Speaker A: It's longer than Glory. Glory and Glory had an intermission. And I've watched that movie a lot of times. [00:09:36] Speaker B: That's a lot of that movie. [00:09:39] Speaker A: Yeah. I mean, I had to watch it for history class. Like Glory. [00:09:44] Speaker B: I wasn't talking about Glory. Glory is a good movie. [00:09:46] Speaker A: I'm talking about Snyder cut. Yeah, and there's probably Gone with the. [00:09:50] Speaker B: Wind because Gone with the Wind is a terrible piece of cinema. [00:09:53] Speaker A: Oh, man. [00:10:01] Speaker B: This is a fun movie. [00:10:03] Speaker A: No, not fun. Not fun. Snyder cuts 4 hours. Why? [00:10:11] Speaker B: Well, I don't know. Maybe the Harlan Ellison cut would have hours. [00:10:18] Speaker A: The Harlan Ellison cut would have been episodes. Days, weeks. [00:10:23] Speaker B: Well, it could have been two episodes, probably. Right. If it was made this day and age, they would have clearly made this into a couple of episodes. Right. They would have split up the first two issues that we covered. [00:10:35] Speaker A: It's a couple of hundred pages. [00:10:37] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:10:41] Speaker A: A page equals a minute in film time. Roughly in runtime. So you're looking at. [00:10:51] Speaker B: So they would have had to cut it down to 40. What is it? [00:10:54] Speaker A: It would have been a feature film, dude. [00:10:56] Speaker B: Sorry. How long is it? 42 minutes times two. So it would have had to cut it down to 82 minuTes. Yeah. I could totally see this as a two part episode, though, right? If this had been done even in the 80s, it definitely would have been done as a two part episode. [00:11:15] Speaker A: It could have been two part episode. Or it could have been one of their feature films. Think about that. [00:11:20] Speaker B: That's true. [00:11:21] Speaker A: Imagine if they had Star Wars. Star Wars. Oh, my gosh. I'm so sorry. [00:11:27] Speaker B: I hate you so much right now. When Captain Kirk was like, flying the Millennium Falcon, it was great. That was my favorite. [00:11:44] Speaker A: They had Star Trek. They had Star Trek Two. And in between that, what was Star Trek Two, Greg? No, but in between. [00:11:55] Speaker B: What was Star Trek Two, Greg? [00:11:56] Speaker A: The Wrath of Khan. [00:11:57] Speaker B: Thank you. [00:11:58] Speaker A: And in between that. Yes, I know it's your movie. I was trying to. [00:12:03] Speaker B: And this is my episode. [00:12:05] Speaker A: Oh, my God. You're going to destroy it. [00:12:10] Speaker B: I destroy all fun. That's why I want to. [00:12:13] Speaker A: You're the fun Destroyer. He's Dan the fun Destroyer. So in between two and three, we create a new number. And that's where we put the city on the edge of forever. [00:12:28] Speaker B: Why don't we just replace three with. [00:12:31] Speaker A: The city on the edge of forever? No, hear me out. You put this one in between because of the time stream. [00:12:45] Speaker B: Because that makes total sense. [00:12:47] Speaker A: It does. Because Khan wants to destroy everything. [00:12:53] Speaker B: And then actually an amazing two books where they actually cover Khan's early life. [00:13:02] Speaker A: And he's actually a nice guy who just wants to sell insurance. [00:13:05] Speaker B: No, he's not a good family. He's a genetically engineered human that takes over the Pan Asian continent and tries to take over the world. [00:13:15] Speaker A: So he's a bad guy from the beginning. Bad boy for life. [00:13:22] Speaker B: And the amazing thing about that novel is they feature Gary Seven in the novel Greg Cox actually wrote. Oh, yeah, yeah. Called Star Trek, Eugenics Wars. I love that book. It's a two parter. Apparently, he wrote another one called Terrain in Hell, which I haven't read, looking these up. [00:13:43] Speaker A: But is this a novel? Novel? [00:13:46] Speaker B: Yeah, it's. The Eugenics wars is a two part novel focusing on Union Singh before World War II in Star Trek timeline. And it's amazing. Greg Cox, of course, is a notorious. Notorious. That's the wrong word, Greg. Sorry. Is a phenomenal pulp writer. He's written many, many things. [00:14:08] Speaker A: He could be a notorious pulp writer. [00:14:09] Speaker B: Star Trek and Star wars universes. Right. [00:14:12] Speaker A: Wait, he's done both Star Trek and Star Wars. All of the Stars. [00:14:17] Speaker B: A lot of them have crossed, you know, just the way it is. [00:14:21] Speaker A: That's the fault in the. [00:14:24] Speaker B: But yeah, it's so good stuff there. But we are not focused on Khan. We are focused on, well, Kirk. Kirk. Spock. [00:14:34] Speaker A: Spock and the city and the edge of. [00:14:37] Speaker B: And of course, we left off issue four, where Kirk and Spock got in a fight, and they left disagreeing over whether or not, should we call her Kirk's girlfriend at this point. Yeah. [00:14:55] Speaker A: Kirk's girlfriend. [00:14:56] Speaker B: Yeah. Whether Edith Keeler with the sun and. [00:14:59] Speaker A: The moon and the stars. [00:15:01] Speaker B: Yep. Should die. And they split. And of course, it's always good to split up when you are back in time because that's when Beckwith comes out of the shadows, overpowers Mr. Spock again, takes the phaser away that he was going to use to kill Edith Keeler potentially, and starts shooting at him. And that's where we leave off. And we get to issue five. [00:15:29] Speaker A: Issue five. [00:15:32] Speaker B: And we get another beautiful cover by Juan RTZ. I love these retro covers. [00:15:39] Speaker A: They do look so cool. I like how they have all those different things incorporated into the hair, I guess. [00:15:48] Speaker B: Well, they just look like Sci-Fi covers from the 60s, right? [00:15:52] Speaker A: For sure. [00:15:53] Speaker B: It's very cool retro art. And so it's nifty stuff. And we turn the page and we get a sign about 1916. [00:16:10] Speaker A: You say what? [00:16:11] Speaker B: Well, we have a sign about 1916. [00:16:13] Speaker A: Oh, 1916. I thought you said 1960. And I'm like. [00:16:20] Speaker B: Late. [00:16:20] Speaker A: Yeah, I'm pretty sure Verdon was a little earlier than 1960, but yes, 1916. [00:16:28] Speaker B: Yes is correct. So we have a war veteran selling apples, and of course they come up and he's being talked to by a mysterious figure, mystery man who looks a lot like Captain Kirk. [00:16:53] Speaker A: Oh, it is Captain Kirk. [00:16:55] Speaker B: Hey. And Captain Kirk's basically just digging some information out of him and trying the. [00:17:02] Speaker A: Kind of guy that has information. [00:17:03] Speaker B: Yep. And we get a three page spread on this conversation, which is a long conversation. [00:17:10] Speaker A: He's got a lot of information to share. [00:17:12] Speaker B: He shows him his Starfleet badge, which is pretty cool. [00:17:16] Speaker A: Yeah, it's like, hey, got something to show you. [00:17:22] Speaker B: And so he finishes off, I think I can trust a man who fought at. So, okay. And then we get back into the story so we know that Kirk's trying to buy off some information and trying to figure out where Beckwith is. And then we flip to a scene with Edith Keeler and Captain Kirk, and they're having dinner, and these dinners seem to get more elaborate. Nice flowers on the table. They're having some cake. [00:17:53] Speaker A: Cake? Yeah, it's a nice, tender evening. [00:18:00] Speaker B: I think she makes him an angel food cake, ironically. [00:18:06] Speaker A: Is that foreshadowing, maybe food from Angel? Oh, my. [00:18:13] Speaker B: Well, she is supposed to be this angel supposedly here on Earth, and she asks him, are you going away, Jim? And he says, perhaps I don't want to. And she says, it's that Chinese fellow, isn't it? Referring to Spock. And the first time not referring to that in a racist way in the entire five issues. And he says, in a way, I know him and he knows me all my life. I belong to other people. I know things will be cleaner, happier. I try to tell them so they'll wait, so they'll hope. But now I don't belong to anyone, and I'm losing my own hope, Jim. So, interestingly enough, she seems worn out by her life, dedicated to service. And Kirk seems worn out by his life, dedicated to service. So I think we had a theme here, because that's what was happening in issue four. [00:19:10] Speaker A: Yeah, themes running rampant through these books. [00:19:19] Speaker B: And it's interesting because Kirk retorts back, you're right. There are a million tomorrows. The one you believe in is the best one I know. Citing the fact this kind of future of peace that she's sort of creating. Future of peace. More of a future of understanding, of caring, giving, helping wasn't really a future. [00:19:44] Speaker A: Of peace, more of a future goodness. [00:19:47] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:19:50] Speaker A: It'S out there, right? I mean, they predicted in this book it's coming. [00:19:56] Speaker B: What is? [00:19:57] Speaker A: The future piece. [00:19:58] Speaker B: No, it wasn't predicted in this book at all. [00:20:01] Speaker A: Okay. [00:20:05] Speaker B: Spoiler. I was trying to smooth over my mistake, and then you just blew it back up. It happens. It's okay. The two stories are close to each other, and by two stories, we're referring to the actual televised script and the script. So we get into back in the page, and Kirk comes back home, and Spock mentions that the little man with out legs was here, and he thinks he's found Beckwith. So they go out into the alley and start looking around, which is always good, because so far, it's what Beckwith, 800. Kirk and Spock zero inside of rock formations or alleys. [00:20:53] Speaker A: Yes. They seem to really not do so hot in any of these places. What they need to do. [00:21:02] Speaker B: It's almost like Kirk's not trying to leave. [00:21:05] Speaker A: Yeah, almost. [00:21:07] Speaker B: It's like his plans are not up to par. [00:21:09] Speaker A: He's got a reason to stick around. [00:21:13] Speaker B: So they get out into the alley, and they pay off some folks, and all of a sudden, they start getting bombarded with garbage cans. Some beautiful painted scenes. Kirk and the veteran are running away, and the veteran gets disintegrated. Always nice. Some good phaser fire. It's fun. And then Beckless, still going crazy. And finally, Spock throws a garbage can at him. So in the foreign object count, we've got. Let's see. We've got a crate on wheels. We've got a garbage can. I'm looking for the folding steel chair. [00:22:01] Speaker A: I don't see one. [00:22:03] Speaker B: Is there a ladder or an object? The phaser is down. Beckwith is running away. Kirk is now going for the phaser in classic television form. And now we get this weird, smoky glow from where the wheelchair was. [00:22:24] Speaker A: Gone. [00:22:26] Speaker B: And Spock asks why he did that for him, and Kirk says, because he gave him $2. And they ask about Verdun. And then we flash to Edith Keeler. She's meeting with a bunch of people, and she says there are great times on the way. Days of gold and nights of cool and sweet smelling. This isn't the only happiness this world turning under us look up tonight see all out there see them burning, smiling. [00:23:00] Speaker A: Is this when the little mice sing? [00:23:02] Speaker B: I think so. [00:23:08] Speaker A: I just watched that movie yesterday at the store. Little Mouse, where are you? [00:23:18] Speaker B: I love that movie. [00:23:21] Speaker A: I honestly like goes west better, but I think it's just because it's got Dom DeLuise and I have taste. [00:23:30] Speaker B: Okay, well, they're both great movies. [00:23:32] Speaker A: No, they are. That's why I watched it yesterday. [00:23:36] Speaker B: They're both great movies. [00:23:37] Speaker A: I had to. It was just too good. [00:23:40] Speaker B: Well, seeing Edith speaking that spurs on another conversation between Captain Kirk and Spock. And Spock mentions she speaks as though you've talked to her. And Kirk says she doesn't know who we are, and yet he says her ideas are way ahead of their time. Yes, and I think we've confirmed that through the story. So I'll definitely acknowledge that side of what we were messing up earlier is that her ideas seem to be ahead of their time. Right. She's not speaking from a person who, say, gearing up to go to war with the Nazis. [00:24:19] Speaker A: No. She is just someone who wants. She wants goodness in the world, and she wants people to see that there can be goodness and good things. By doing good things. You get good things. By being good. You shed the darkness of all the things that are keeping you in dark places, and you're able to go and have the light shine down on you. [00:24:49] Speaker B: And I will say, too, compliment to Harlan Ellison, because this is very nuanced. And Harlan Ellison, in the original teleplay here places her in a time during the Great Depression. We don't really get a lot of focus on what's going on in the rest of the world. So if we look back a few issues, right, like in issue two, end of issue two, we have the folks speaking out against the evil foreigners, right? And Kirk and Spock have to run away. And Spock, the shopkeeper, was racist toward him because of his perceived Chinese heritage. And we've had a lot of racism, a lot of very anti immigrant stances in the book, and then clearly in the Great Depression. And Edith is this sort of beacon of hope, right. She's saying, don't be a victim, basically, like, rise up above your circumstance. Keep looking for the future. Stay positive. Just a very unique figure in the time. And here she is now. She has a little biT. Now she's in love for the first time, and her message is even stronger. [00:26:01] Speaker A: Oh, yeah. When you're having good feelings inside you, whatever's driving your emotions, and if it good or negative, it's going to be seen invisible by those around you, and if you're going to amplify that. So she's amplifying all those good things out there to the people. [00:26:28] Speaker B: And so we flip the page, and Edith sees Kirk. They look at each other from across the street. She waves, and we see Beckwith coming from around the corner. Edith wanders toward Kirk. Aimlessly out into the street, and then we get horrified faces from everybody. Kirk, Spock, and Beckwith looking down. And, of course, a truck is coming on the street in the dark, and Beckwith tries to reach out for her. Kirk starts heading out into the street, and Spock grabs Beckwith, and Edith Keeler is right in the middle of the truck, and she's hit. Beautiful painted scenes here as I'm going through. [00:27:23] Speaker A: Yeah, it is stunning and amazing. Like each and every panel, the detail, the looks on their faces, the detail just in all the little minute actions that characters are doing is just wow. [00:27:41] Speaker B: The last look on Edith's face as she's looking into the headlights of just sheer terror. It's more of sheer panic, I guess. [00:27:48] Speaker A: But it's such a great with her and Kirk both. It's the shared moment of them looking at each other, that last moment, and realizing that's it, too. [00:28:05] Speaker B: And the agony on Kirk's face. I think it's beautiful, too, because don't get me wrong, there's some blood and gore comics that I absolutely loved at points, but we don't have to have a drop of blood. You. You can tell everything just by the look on people's faces. And then Kirk's agony. And then we have a scene where Kirk's face locked in that anguish to look where he closes his eyes, right, to not see her die. And you see the next page. You see an Enterprise in the background with a painting on a star field, and he sort of fades into it. It almost looks like the weird squares from. Is that Superman two? [00:28:49] Speaker A: He's in the zone. [00:28:51] Speaker B: It looks like the Phantom zone squares. Yeah, it kind of does. [00:28:54] Speaker A: Or like when you go to the fair and you're riding that one cool ride that they tell you the gravitron, when they say, don't stand on the thing. [00:29:02] Speaker B: I don't ride the gravitron, dude. [00:29:04] Speaker A: Then you have not lived. You got to ride the Gravitron. [00:29:09] Speaker B: So I went to Disneyland right before the lockdown, like, way back at the beginning of 2020, before we knew what was happening. Yeah. And I'd never been to Disneyland before, and somebody talked me into going on that Guardians of the Galaxy ride that just dropped you up and down. [00:29:27] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:29:28] Speaker B: I was not happy. I told everybody no roller coasters, and I went on Space Mountain, like, the first. How they snap your, like, I look like Edith Keeler in that picture. And my friends somehow think, this is really great. And I'm just like, I don't see how you could think this looks great. It's not just that I'm scared. I look know I'm dying, right? [00:29:59] Speaker A: On the drop on the Guardians, when the camera takes a picture, what was your picture like? Was it just like. [00:30:07] Speaker B: By then? It was just sort of disgust, you. [00:30:12] Speaker A: Know, that you're going up to drop right down. [00:30:15] Speaker B: I did not like, yeah, well, the Guardians one drops up and down a lot. I'm not a big fan of roller coasters. [00:30:28] Speaker A: Oh, man. [00:30:31] Speaker B: If I can't climb to it myself, I'm not a big fan. [00:30:36] Speaker A: So you going to Magic Mountain and doing the Superman ride? Not happening. [00:30:42] Speaker B: That's probably not happening. [00:30:43] Speaker A: Oh, it's so good, though. [00:30:45] Speaker B: As everyone says, let me hike up the mountain myself or climb it. You got to hike up myself, and I'm fine. [00:30:54] Speaker A: No, that's the thing, though, is you have to hike through it to get to the ride. And then once you get on the ride, then you go, and it's, like, super quick, but it's super fun. [00:31:02] Speaker B: I did the Matterhorn. That was tolerable. [00:31:05] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:31:08] Speaker B: Well, I guess here on Disneyland cast. [00:31:15] Speaker A: We'Ve changed everybody. The old bait and Switch podcast. That's right. You come for the funny book forensics, but we reel you in, and we stop right in the middle of a Star Trek episode and start talking Disney. That's right. Nothing but Disney cast. Go on, Dan. What else happened? [00:31:34] Speaker B: Did I say Disney cast or did I say Disneyland cast? [00:31:37] Speaker A: Disneyland cast. Oh, no. [00:31:38] Speaker B: Trademark. [00:31:39] Speaker A: Sorry. [00:31:40] Speaker B: You also just tried to link Star Trek to Disney again, and in the first episode, I told you you couldn't do that. [00:31:47] Speaker A: Well, we were talking about Star Trek, and then we swapped over because. You swapped over. I didn't do that. You did it. [00:31:57] Speaker B: Disney is not buying Star Trek. [00:32:02] Speaker A: I'm not saying it. [00:32:08] Speaker B: Well, we get a look, and Kirk comes out of the portal. Matrix Mountains. The city. [00:32:18] Speaker A: The city of the Lost. [00:32:19] Speaker B: The Guardians are back. The Guardians of the Galaxy. I mean, the Guardians of OA are back. And time has resumed its shape. They say what Spock asks about the death of the cripple, because Spock is not ableism or is caring. They say he was negligible, which makes it even worse. But he found Beckwith for us, and he must have counted. And they said he counted, but not enough to you in the eternal flow of the greater river. And so everything is the same as before, and they say everything. [00:33:03] Speaker A: See, I disagree with these guys. I think that how he lost his legs was probably what earned him a spot in all of that time. Does that make sense? [00:33:16] Speaker B: Sure. Yeah. But it didn't impact. [00:33:22] Speaker A: It didn't impact the. [00:33:23] Speaker B: He wasn't Edith changing people's lives on the corner of the street there. [00:33:28] Speaker A: Maybe he changed someone's life before and his moment was used already. [00:33:36] Speaker B: Yeah, I think that's. Think. [00:33:38] Speaker A: So if he died as a child, then we'd have a different problem, maybe. [00:33:44] Speaker B: Or Kirk would have gone and found somebody else to do something. I think it brings up a good. I mean, I think Spock brings up a good question. I think Harlan Ellison almost critiques his own script, right? [00:33:57] Speaker A: Yeah. Yeah. [00:33:59] Speaker B: Which also, I like that in Sci-Fi writing, right? I like it when a script writer can point out, or a prose writer can point out when they've created a flaw in their own scenario. Totally. Okay with that. [00:34:12] Speaker A: It is a good question to throw back and make you wonder, because it made me take ten minutes to think about and ask the question of myself, so made me become more invested in whatever it was. So, yeah, it was good. [00:34:34] Speaker B: Anyway, Spock doesn't really get his question answered. I guess he just gets him said that it's inconsequential, gets rebuffed. And now we're going to get into something that I love here in a second, because one of my favorite comic books ever played on this theme. [00:34:51] Speaker A: What's that? [00:34:53] Speaker B: Well, let's look and see what happens next. [00:34:57] Speaker A: What happens next? [00:34:58] Speaker B: So Beckwith drives back, dives back into the vortex. [00:35:02] Speaker A: Oh, that dumb dumb. [00:35:04] Speaker B: Because what was he thinking holding him? And Spock and Kirk are defeated by Beckwith for the 900th time. This guy. [00:35:13] Speaker A: What is he made of? He was so much potential wasted and gone. Okay, so what happens to him? Where does he go? [00:35:31] Speaker B: He goes in and he screams. And he went back. It was all for nothing. And they say, no, the vortex cannot be set to the exact same time twice. He was created a fracture and plunged into it. And they say, then where has he escaped? [00:35:46] Speaker A: He says, not this time. He wanted forever. The Vortex has given him forever. Like the Moius strip that has no end, the curve that curves back onto itself. Eternally. He is locked in time. [00:36:11] Speaker B: And Spock says, forever. He cannot escape. [00:36:14] Speaker A: His forever will be in the heart of an exploding sun. Anova. He has named his own doom. [00:36:27] Speaker B: And I'm not exactly sure how that works, but I will say one of my very favorite Legion comics, back when I was a kid, and then a second Legion comic later were the appearances of the Infinite Man. And if you want to look back, that was Legion of superheroes. 233 from 1977 was the first appearance. And I will mention, too, because unfortunately, only a few of the creators are still with us from that, but Mike Grell did the COVID Paul Levittz was the writer, and, of course, one of the early female creators that had a lot of influence. Liz Barubi was the colorist of that book, and James Sherman did the art. And so looking back at this, I'm only listing them because it's a beautiful book. I don't know if it's the best story ever, but they kind of explore the same concept. They shoot somebody into the time strEam, and he circles time in an infinite loop instead of in a as they were described. So we're not looking at the beginning of time and the end of time. He goes to the end of the time, and it circulates. It's the same concept they're exploring here. Right. He will forever be in this heart of the exploding star. And it's even drawn circular, as you can see it, he's moving through. [00:37:48] Speaker A: Yeah, I like the artwork. It looks really cool as his face is, like, pulling apart. [00:37:57] Speaker B: And I also think it's neat, this subtle touch in the story, how we've now looked at time in a completely different way again. So we looked at time as being static, right? And then it was a river, and now it's this infinite loop. I feel like maybe Harlan Ellison had some influences from a British show. Perhaps. [00:38:21] Speaker A: Maybe he might have had some. [00:38:24] Speaker B: I wonder if he wrote Doctor who. I actually don't know that. I don't know if he wrote any episodes. Well, we'll investigate that later. I'm sure someone will call us out on that. Our one listener will call us out. [00:38:35] Speaker A: The one listener that rules them all. The one listeners is actually you. You're the only one downloading the show. No, it's someone else. [00:38:48] Speaker B: It is. [00:38:49] Speaker A: It's John. [00:38:51] Speaker B: Thank you, John. [00:38:52] Speaker A: Thank you, John. [00:38:54] Speaker B: When Cthulhu calls, all the other podcasts bow down to worship Cthulhu. [00:39:01] Speaker A: Oh, jeez. Oh, my gosh. That was good. [00:39:06] Speaker B: Thank you, mothership. We appreciate. [00:39:08] Speaker A: Ah, the mothership has helped us yet. Great. It's good. [00:39:14] Speaker B: So they go back, and we get a nice feely, touchy feely scene between Spock and Kirk. Kirk is really sad, and Spock is sad for him, but Spock's also very happy to be back with his ship. And Spock gives probably the best little monologue of the episode of the teleplay, I should say. He said, on my world, the nights are very long. The sound of the silver birds against the sky is very sweet. My people know there's always time enough for everything. You could come with me for a rest. You would feel comfortable says, and Kirk says, all the time in the world, and Spock says, and filled with tomorrows. But you can tell me something I need to understand, something that defies logic. I would not intrude, but it troubles me. I believe that the phrase, it deeply troubles me. You could not stop Beckwith. I understand that. But Beckwith, amoral evil, a killer, selfish and capable of anything. Why? And Kirk just says, why did he try to save her at the risk of his own life? And they explore the inherent goodness through the rest of their little discussion of people. And I think Spock's getting there. But. [00:40:44] Speaker A: Yeah, in this whole entire story, from beginning to end, Spock's human side and his emotion, like understanding emotions and becoming more emotional and connected to different things is very apparent. And wanting to understand how and why things are and or are working, it's very Spock, but it's like, on this level, it's different. And just in the fact that he greets Kirk not as captain, but as Jim, and is very personal, and he's becoming very personal with him in a personal manner. [00:41:34] Speaker B: Well, it's interesting, too, because reading between the know, they mentioned this idea, know, noble deed, spark of impossible human goodness. And was Edith Keeler that, like, did she bring that out in everybody? [00:41:48] Speaker A: Right. [00:41:49] Speaker B: They explore the idea of the trooper at Verdun, the veteran being negligible. And Kirk says, verdun? And he was negligible. He fought at Verdun, and he was negligible. And she. And Spock interjects, no, she was not negligible. And Kirk just looks up and says, but I loved her. And Spock says, no woman was ever loved as much, Jim, because no woman was ever offered the universe for love. And Spock leaves, and Kirk just looks out the window for Lauren again, knowing that everything Spock said was true. [00:42:36] Speaker A: And now there's a giant hole in your heart after you read this, because. [00:42:40] Speaker B: It'S the punch, and it's a good story. [00:42:44] Speaker A: Yeah, it's like, aw. [00:42:49] Speaker B: Well. And it's back to that idea of what is the real reality, right? And honestly, would they have been better off if she lived? Right. So in the comic, in the original teleplay, in the comic here, it just applies. She's a person of almost pure goodness, right? She can inspire good in everyone. And what type of power would somebody that inspires good in everybody have? [00:43:22] Speaker A: You don't know. I mean, unlimited amounts of goodness. [00:43:26] Speaker B: Well, and I think the teleplay leaves it open. Right? It doesn't say what her future would have been like. [00:43:30] Speaker A: Yeah, no, it doesn't. Just that she made people around her better, the world a little better just being there. [00:43:40] Speaker B: And so as she grew older, gained power, because it was clear she would give these talks and there was people there, right. To do the talks. And she had crowds every time she spoke. And she even walked off of a pedestal, basically, last time she spoke. Right? [00:43:57] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:43:58] Speaker B: I mean, does she become mayor of New York? Does she exhibit power? I don't know what happens if she gains. [00:44:09] Speaker A: She, does she use it for all the good things or does she? Maybe there's a totally different storyline, man. [00:44:18] Speaker B: Who knows? [00:44:19] Speaker A: She takes it to the different direction. I'm just joking, but we'll never know. [00:44:29] Speaker B: So we have some notes back in the back of the book, but I think we're going to wrap probably on this. We go through those notes. By the way, there is a Star Trek doctor who reference in the notes. Just so you know, I'm not insane when I say that there is. There is because maybe I read them. [00:44:48] Speaker A: Oh, look at you, Mr. Reading the notes. [00:44:51] Speaker B: Podcast preparation. [00:44:53] Speaker A: Podcast preparation. And you read the notes and there you find. Oh, hey, there it is. I mean, I didn't find it, but this is you saying, but they were talking about just a garbage can and. [00:45:11] Speaker B: How it looked like joking and Oscar the Groucha beard. [00:45:16] Speaker A: Yeah. Oh, my gosh. You could have. That would have been great. [00:45:22] Speaker B: So I think that probably the neatest thing we get here is we get this little piece of Harlan Ellison at the end in an afterword, just mentioning what they did to go through this and looking at the paneling and how excited he was and that he cried when he saw the final comic, which is pretty cool. [00:45:46] Speaker A: That is cool. [00:45:48] Speaker B: Well, they were not the final. I guess they were looking at the panels, but, yeah, so pretty neat stuff. Pretty neat series. And what was your major takeaways from this? [00:46:01] Speaker A: My major takeaways from this. It was such a well crafted piece of work, just the way that it was all married up and put together. I thoroughly enjoyed being able to read this in its entirety and then to see how it was just put together to be on the page, because taking the teleplay, which was meant for the screen, and then having the brothers put their own spin on it, in a sense. Okay, well, this is how it's going to break out. And then the artist just giving us these great panels. [00:46:50] Speaker B: Yeah. I think the painted approach was the right approach. [00:46:55] Speaker A: Yeah. I mean, there's some that if you could find a print of that, I would be like, yes, that's a print I would love to have. [00:47:02] Speaker B: Yeah. If you find a print of this and you just like to give it to Greg or I, you can reach out to us at Funny Book Forensics at Funnybook Forensics on Twitter and Instagram, and you can also reach out to us at Funny Book Forensics on the Facebook. We would love that. But, yeah, I think overall, I think the art choice was correct for what they were doing. And I think it makes it surreal enough, too, that you don't think you're watching the TV. Right. They painted the characters as if the characters are painted. They're obvious likenesses of the actual actors in the series. Right. They didn't just recreate the faces. [00:47:44] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:47:44] Speaker B: But when you're looking at it, it doesn't give you the feel that you're watching the television show. [00:47:54] Speaker A: No. Like you said, the only thing that makes you go, oh, it's Star Trek from TV, is that the characters are the characters that you know in that first book. But everything else, I would say in the first couple of pages of the book, when everything's kind of unpacking, you hit all your major players and then the rest of the series, is what you get out of it a totally different thing? [00:48:29] Speaker B: I also think you could read this book and never have watched Star Trek and anything about it and still get a complete story. [00:48:39] Speaker A: Yeah. You don't even need to have any understanding of it. Could just be a Sci-Fi story unto itself. [00:48:50] Speaker B: And let me be clear, I am not saying that you should not watch Star Trek. I'm simply saying you could have read this without watching Star Trek. [00:49:01] Speaker A: Yeah. You could thoroughly enjoy it with no previous knowledge, but it might actually spark you to want to watch more episodes. There are some great ones out there. [00:49:13] Speaker B: And we are going to watch one next week. Right? [00:49:15] Speaker A: Oh, my gosh, I cannot wait. This is going to be so fun to watch an episode, talk about it. Maybe some people will join us, maybe our one listener. [00:49:28] Speaker B: Now, the problem is this podcast is going to go up after we watch the episode. So if you're listening to this, you missed your opportunity. [00:49:41] Speaker A: Oh, no. Terrible. [00:49:43] Speaker B: But that's okay because you can get the recorded version of the watch along. [00:49:49] Speaker A: Yay. [00:49:50] Speaker B: And it'll be posted for you. [00:49:52] Speaker A: Yay. [00:49:55] Speaker B: Yeah. But we're going to have details on the watch along on our Twitter feed. [00:50:00] Speaker A: Yay. Oh, wait, are we going to live. [00:50:02] Speaker B: Tweet while we talk in our Instagram feed? Well, we'll have details to come, but if you missed it this time. That's why you should be following us on Twitter, Instagram and Facebook, because then you get to find out amazing things about what we're doing on the podcast and you get to join us. So we're actually going to watch a Star Trek episode called Want to guess, Greg? [00:50:27] Speaker A: City on the edge of a river. [00:50:34] Speaker B: That's exactly right. City on the Edge of River Song. [00:50:38] Speaker A: Sweet. I knew I was close. [00:50:40] Speaker B: Star Trek Doctor who crossover April 6, 1967. Sweet. Yeah. So to be City on the Edge of Forever. Star Trek original series. You can watch Star Trek on, I think, everything. I know, Amazon prime and Netflix both have it. So we'll be building a link in there. And Greg is going to put up some posts about when this watch along is going to happen. [00:51:05] Speaker A: I'm going to do some research. I'm going to get figured out so that when we I'll post up on the social medias how we're going to watch it so you can join. [00:51:17] Speaker B: And then obviously you missed it if you're listening to this now, but we'll start doing more of these in the future as time or topics allow. [00:51:27] Speaker A: Nah. [00:51:30] Speaker B: Or we're never doing it again, apparently. [00:51:34] Speaker A: I was joking. [00:51:36] Speaker B: Well, join us with the watch along and you can see the real live actors do the version of the script that won the Hugo Award as opposed to won the best script for the so. And you'll get to see really young Joan Collins. [00:51:50] Speaker A: Whoa. [00:51:54] Speaker B: So we'll see which characters made the cut, which characters didn't made the cut, which storyline points made the cut, and which storyline points did Dan and Greg already spoil several times in the last three episodes? [00:52:06] Speaker A: I spoiled nothing. I don't know what you're talking about. [00:52:09] Speaker B: Yeah, person of Peace spoiling. [00:52:12] Speaker A: That wasn't me. That was you. I only talked about Disneyland. [00:52:18] Speaker B: That's fair. And the Superman ride, which is not at Disneyland. [00:52:21] Speaker A: It is not Disneyland. You got to go to Great America. No. Oh, man. Six Flags, Six Flags, Magic Mountain. [00:52:29] Speaker B: Are you having fun yet? [00:52:31] Speaker A: Oh, I'm having a great time. [00:52:33] Speaker B: Are you going to name every theme park that existed over the last 25 years? 30 years? [00:52:38] Speaker A: Knottsberry Farm. I almost called it Boonesbury Farm. That would be the worst. That would be the worst amusement park ever. It is. [00:52:47] Speaker B: They keep on Boons Farm and then send you on roller coasters. [00:52:52] Speaker A: Oh, my gosh. That would just be a horrible, horrible thing. You never want to go. No, thank you. No, sir. [00:53:04] Speaker B: Okay, that's fair. So with that said, we are headed off and ending another fine example of what podcasting looks like. And so, for all of our listeners, you definitely should hold this episode up as what we say. Hold this episode up. [00:53:22] Speaker A: This is the Bitcoin standard of all episodes of all other podcasts. If other podcasts aren't doing this, if they aren't bringing you something with a lukewarm intro that isn't even about anything, and then talking about their one viewer, or one viewer, I keep saying that. And then coming in cool, not hot, but cool, into their podcast, they're not doing it right. That's right. And then they argue amongst themselves later on in the podcast as to what they're talking about. And then one wants to destroy everything and the other host wants to. One host wants to destroy everything, and one host wants to make everybody's day bright by riding a monorail just like Scotty in real life, and just say hi. Then if your other podcast isn't doing that again, they're not doing it right. [00:54:17] Speaker B: And so, friends, as the Snyderverse, as Darkseid, as Khan compels you. [00:54:27] Speaker A: Oh God. [00:54:28] Speaker B: Thank you for listening to funny bug forensics. Thank you. [00:54:40] Speaker A: Oh, I'm supposed to stop it now? 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