Funny Book Forensics 446 Paint the Kingdom

[00:00:05] Speaker A: Greg and I just discovered that Travis is as tall as us when he moves the camera. [00:00:09] Speaker B: Oh my goodness. [00:00:11] Speaker C: I know how to grow. Travis is grower. [00:00:16] Speaker A: He's a shower. [00:00:18] Speaker B: He's a grower. [00:00:20] Speaker A: That's already a great way to start this podcast. Welcome to Funny Book Forensics. As you'll see, we have Travis Webb as a guest today. Web web stream. Web works. Web works. Web works. Like there's extra X's there. And as you know from the. If you visit this podcast often, that means you're from the 90s. [00:00:44] Speaker C: That's true. [00:00:45] Speaker A: Anytime there are extra extreme X's around, that means an extra X. Well, we're going to get started because Greg has things to do. He has to plan for a rock concert. Travis has things to do because he's a grown up human and writer. And I don't have anything to do. I'm sitting in my basement. But that's fine. We're here. We bought Travis because he has lots of stuff he wants to talk about. And we were going to talk about this book here, which we will mention. I haven't seen it yet. No, I'm not talking about that. [00:01:19] Speaker B: And so Dan shows it, but doesn't say what it is. [00:01:22] Speaker C: Yeah, let's talk about it for a little bit. I don't want to review it because I'm in it with other writers. [00:01:28] Speaker A: Yeah. So this is called Bad Future. It was a Kickstarter by [00:01:34] Speaker C: Andy. [00:01:35] Speaker A: And Andy's last name is Travis. [00:01:37] Speaker C: Go to hell. [00:01:38] Speaker A: Uh huh. I knew you didn't know because he tells me he doesn't know. Which is the funny. [00:01:43] Speaker C: It's on the book. [00:01:44] Speaker A: Nordvol. [00:01:46] Speaker C: Good, because I was. I was gonna say Nordwall. [00:01:49] Speaker B: My friend Andy from your wall. [00:01:51] Speaker A: It could be wall. It's a V, so it could be. No, it could be Nord. Wall. No, it could be Nord. [00:01:57] Speaker C: I just didn't want to mess up. I got caught. I got caught. [00:02:01] Speaker A: I knew. I already knew I was catching you. There are four stories in this. I bought it on Kickstarter. I have read story number one. It is fun. [00:02:11] Speaker C: So far. [00:02:11] Speaker A: Travis says he doesn't like his story and I like Travis's story. So it'll be the. Not the first time we disagree about liking or disliking your story today. [00:02:20] Speaker B: Oh, yes. You know, I have to say it's. It's interesting because Mike and I have known Andy since before we were in comics. We met him at the. Oh man. The slam dance screenwriting competition, as we're all finalists. [00:02:45] Speaker A: Wait, wait, can you explain. Wait, hold Time out, Time out. You're telling a story. And I'm interrupting you because you just mentioned these slam dance screenwriting competitions. Yes. So is that like a fame like script around who gets to be the final winner of the dance competition in the town where there is no dancing and then you have to dance while writing? [00:03:11] Speaker B: Yes. And then basically we. We slam dance around in a circle and it's. It's amazing. Honestly, though, it's. It's ironic that you do. You. You bring up fame and other stuff. [00:03:25] Speaker A: We. [00:03:26] Speaker B: Mike and I got to meet. [00:03:27] Speaker A: Tyler died. Of course I'm going to bring up fame. [00:03:29] Speaker B: Oh, yes, of course. But Mike and I got to. To meet the. The believe the director and producers of Pump up the Volume while we were there, and they really were interested in the stuff that we were doing at the time, but it was at the time of the writer's strike, so we kind of got the boot. That's how we got into comics, though. [00:03:49] Speaker A: So you got a boot? [00:03:51] Speaker B: Yeah, I got the boot from the Hollywood industry. [00:03:55] Speaker A: Yeah. Well, and we also. Not that I would ever get distracted with both of you on the podcast, but I bring up Bonnie Tyler, Rest in peace, of course. Travis. One of Travis's favorite song composers or video composers. Jim Steinman. [00:04:09] Speaker C: Yes, that's so true. And Bonnie Tyler is actually one of my favorite artists because. So you got Meatloaf and Bonnie Tyler and. Yeah, yes. [00:04:17] Speaker A: But we like how Bonnie Tyler was politically at the end of her life, and we didn't like how Meatloaf was at the end of his life. [00:04:23] Speaker C: So I don't remember how me Loaf was at the end of his life. And that is a choice. [00:04:27] Speaker A: It didn't go well. [00:04:28] Speaker C: I'm a choice. It's a choice. I'm gonna always remember him at his greatest moment in history. A bus driver for the Spice Girls. [00:04:35] Speaker A: Yes, that is true. But also I will remember him and Travis won't because I saw the meatloaf slash Jim Steinman musical. [00:04:41] Speaker C: I'm in a Travis, punch you in the head the next time you're in Vegas. [00:04:47] Speaker A: And I had so much fun. Yes. Greg, do you not know about this? [00:04:51] Speaker B: No, I don't know about this. [00:04:53] Speaker A: There was a Meatloaf musical that is basically a Jim Steinman musical that chronicled all of bad out of hell and then brought in the one song by Celine Dion at the end. Oh, where he. [00:05:06] Speaker C: Greatest movies ever. Greatest albums ever made. [00:05:09] Speaker A: And Travis didn't know that I was going to this thing, and I didn't think Travis would be interested in going to this thing. So I went by myself. [00:05:16] Speaker B: Oh, no. [00:05:17] Speaker C: Now, I didn't go because it was right after Covid when I got down here, and I was. That's when I first started getting pancreatitis and didn't know what was going on. And I didn't want to go alone because I was sick, but. But I wanted to go really bad, and nobody would go. I asked a ton of people, and first of all, they were either like, no, because Covid is still kind of a thing. Yeah, it wasn't. It had been away for about a year at this point, but, like, I just thought I'd have more time to find someone to go with me. And then it went away, and it [00:05:45] Speaker A: only stayed for, like, three months. And then it went to Australia. [00:05:48] Speaker C: Oh, geez. I can't fly to Australia. I don't have that kind of money. Plus, it's 400 on an airplane, and I hate airplanes. [00:05:54] Speaker B: Dan got. [00:05:55] Speaker A: I can go to Australia. But no, it was a. It. This is. This part's not to rub it in. It really actually was fantastic. But I can also see why it wasn't a Vegas show, because it's not. It's not the style of show that would stay in Vegas for a long term. Right. It's. It's the style of show that would be like. Like. Like when we saw Motley Crue, Right. Like, where they just have a residency. It was a show that I just don't think had the legs to stay there for years and people just watch over and over again. But, yeah, no, it was a. It was a fantastic show. And rest in peace, Bonnie Tyler, who sang with meatloaf. Right. And then also obviously sang all of her own things. [00:06:40] Speaker B: I have a meatloaf experience. Can I. Can I share as well? [00:06:44] Speaker A: Well, sure. [00:06:45] Speaker B: Okay. [00:06:45] Speaker A: Unless it's. Unless it's about Fight Club. [00:06:47] Speaker B: No, no. [00:06:48] Speaker C: Or Spice Girls. [00:06:49] Speaker B: No. My dad would make this delicious meatloaf where he would. [00:06:53] Speaker A: He would take the meatloaf every week. [00:06:56] Speaker C: He would take the. [00:06:57] Speaker B: Take a bunch of breakfast sausages and put it inside the center of the meatloaf and then roll it around. And then when he would bake it, then you would cut it into slices, and you would get a breakfast sausage inside your meatloaf patty so you could have it for breakfast. [00:07:13] Speaker A: Man, that's super exciting. [00:07:14] Speaker C: Okay. Part of me was like, this story sucks. But the end game of that, honestly, I'm going to try that. [00:07:20] Speaker B: You should. [00:07:22] Speaker A: It's better if you put, like, a cheddar cheese in the middle, and then [00:07:25] Speaker C: you get Put cheese on meatloaf, you gross bastard. [00:07:28] Speaker A: No, no, put it inside. [00:07:30] Speaker C: No cheese meatloaf is gross. [00:07:32] Speaker B: This is where it gets even better, Dan. You can go and scramble some eggs with cheese and put it on top of your meatloaf sausage patty and have that. [00:07:41] Speaker C: Oh, my God. [00:07:43] Speaker B: So good. [00:07:44] Speaker A: Well, we came here to talk about comic books and welcome to Meatloaf Cast. It is a fantastic day at Meatloaf Cast. You know, there are a lot of different ways you can do a meatloaf. In fact, I do a keto meatloaf where you grind up. You know, instead of using breadcrumbs, use pork rinds. Oh, and then it's. It's. It's. No, no carb meatloaf. [00:08:05] Speaker C: That's still. [00:08:06] Speaker A: Tastes really good. [00:08:07] Speaker C: Cheese, like. [00:08:09] Speaker A: Yeah, it's fantastic. What kind of your binder is the pork rinds instead of the like flavored [00:08:14] Speaker B: pork rinds or non flavored pork rinds? [00:08:16] Speaker A: Yeah, use the. Use like the chili flavored pork rinds. [00:08:19] Speaker B: Like the lemon chili. [00:08:21] Speaker A: No. [00:08:21] Speaker B: Oh, those are so good though. [00:08:23] Speaker A: Well, you can eat those, but I choose to use the chili or this, the sea salt ones. [00:08:29] Speaker B: You know the good thing about pork rinds? Gluten free. [00:08:34] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:08:34] Speaker A: And so I can make you a gluten free meatloaf as long as I exclude all the sausage. [00:08:39] Speaker B: What? Why? Why would you not put sausage in it? That's how I like it. [00:08:43] Speaker A: Because it has, you know, gluten and stuff. [00:08:45] Speaker B: No, it does. [00:08:46] Speaker C: Gonna point out something really important that needs to be said right now. If you ever crave meatloaf. But it's lunchtime and you want meatloaf but you don't know where to get meatloaf. Go to Sonic's. I swear to God, their cheeseburgers taste like meatloaf burgers. Something wrong with the meat. [00:09:01] Speaker A: I love Sonic. It's fantastic. Especially diet strawberry limeades. And I think the. The last thing to think about when you're going. And by the way, Travis, diet strawberry limeades are now off menu. So you actually have to order it. So you should try it. They're fantastic. [00:09:17] Speaker C: No, I do love those. [00:09:19] Speaker A: Unfortunately, they used to be on the menu and they took them off. They have regular strawberry limeade but not diet strawberry limeade on menu, which is dumb. Yeah. Yes. You're. You're drinking Ghost drinks Limeade. What are you a. What are you, like a 16 year old? [00:09:34] Speaker C: Goddamn zoomers. [00:09:35] Speaker A: Like, what is happening right now? [00:09:37] Speaker B: The cherry limeade one. [00:09:38] Speaker A: Dan, you go to therapy. You go to therapy to work on your legs and make Them stronger and all of a sudden you're drinking ghosts. What are you gonna, like, tap? I was up at 3 o' clock next. In your arm? Yeah. Well, it's sugar free. We're drinking. [00:09:51] Speaker B: It's natural. [00:09:52] Speaker A: Ghost drinks. [00:09:53] Speaker B: It's natural. [00:09:54] Speaker A: Dan Travis, he's gonna come in with the ghost protein. You know, they have all their protein powers are, like, based off breakfast cereals that you like. Yeah, yeah. So you could get them and then you could get the taste of the breakfast cereal and not have the gluten. Yeah, There you go. Caesar's joining us too. It's fantastic. [00:10:12] Speaker C: I just watching him. [00:10:13] Speaker A: Yeah, the. That's Travis's cat, for those of you that don't know. Well, anyway, welcome to the podcast. We are here to talk about comic books. I said we were going to talk about Saga again. Why are you bringing Luigi into the podcast? You're the one that told me we're in a hurry today. [00:10:31] Speaker B: Everyone else has somebody in their podcast. [00:10:33] Speaker C: Can I have Luigi? [00:10:34] Speaker B: Luigi? [00:10:35] Speaker A: Sure. Come on. Hi, babies. Yeah, there we go. All right. Now everybody has joined the podcast. It's. It's good times. All right, so everybody has now joined the podcast. We've had all of our official guests in the podcast. We've gotten that out of the way. Did you know that there is another podcast that uses a meatloaf rating for how well they prefer comic books? Really? Yeah. [00:11:04] Speaker B: I did not know that. [00:11:05] Speaker A: Like, four out of five meatloafs. [00:11:06] Speaker B: Oh, like the singer or the actual meatloaf? [00:11:10] Speaker A: I think they are using the actual meatloaf. But if you use the singer, I would have to, like, talk about the era of the singer. Like, I would say four out of five Eddies, probably. [00:11:20] Speaker B: Okay, four out of five Eddies. [00:11:22] Speaker A: Yeah. Because I would want to use Rocky Horror. [00:11:24] Speaker C: I'd go three. And because two out of three ain't bad. [00:11:28] Speaker A: Ain't bad. [00:11:29] Speaker B: Ain't bad. Yeah. [00:11:32] Speaker A: Yep. Don't be sad well, there's ain't no way Ever gonna love you. [00:11:37] Speaker C: I just wanted to go one more little tangent on that one. If you ever get into a biker bar and you're afraid and there is a jukebox, drop that track, they will ignore you and then begin crying and karaoke to each other and you can escape. [00:11:52] Speaker A: But I won't do that. [00:11:56] Speaker C: I will do. [00:11:57] Speaker A: No, I won't do that. [00:11:58] Speaker C: Yeah. Okay. We should move on. We're gonna bore the hell out everybody with this. [00:12:03] Speaker A: What? This. If they're listening to this podcast, they know what's coming. [00:12:07] Speaker C: Yeah. We should say something really quick. The book you brought up real fast is a cyberpunk book. Yes, it is a cyberpunk book. I write a lot of cyberpunk stuff, especially this year. It's like years of writing cyberpunk stuff, and nobody wants my cyberpunk stuff and everybody wants my cyberpunk stuff. [00:12:25] Speaker A: You. I know you totally write cyberpunk stuff. We're going to talk about some of it later. [00:12:30] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:12:31] Speaker A: What? This. You have this new book coming out. It's called Alex Reigns Cyber Parts From Heaven. It's a kingdom come. It's coming out very soon on Kickstarter. Right. [00:12:41] Speaker C: In a movie and another cyberpunk book. [00:12:46] Speaker A: See? So, I mean, there's all sorts of things. I got the title right this time, right? [00:12:50] Speaker C: Yes. [00:12:51] Speaker A: All right. See, Greg, I told you I'm always getting the title right. [00:12:57] Speaker B: Dan, you are a struggle for. [00:12:58] Speaker A: It's been a struggle for several months as I promoted this book, but I am down with the title now. [00:13:05] Speaker B: I am impressed. [00:13:08] Speaker C: Happy day. [00:13:10] Speaker B: So. [00:13:10] Speaker A: Well, we are. Travis asked me to read something so he could critique it, and he picked, like, one of my favorite comic books. And so I don't know what's happening, but when the guests pick things I like, it's very confusing. Now, in a couple weeks, we're going to have Randy Emberland on, and he has asked us to read a DC comic and not a Marvel comic. And, Travis, you'll be so excited to know. Greg, what did Randy ask us to read? [00:13:38] Speaker B: I. I. [00:13:40] Speaker C: It's Booster Gold, isn't it? [00:13:42] Speaker A: No, it's not Booster Gold. [00:13:45] Speaker B: It's not Booster. [00:13:46] Speaker A: No, it is an influence. It's a very influential comic book. [00:13:49] Speaker B: Yes. [00:13:49] Speaker A: Greg, I don't want to say it. Please tell the listeners of what we're reading. [00:13:54] Speaker B: The Dark Knight. [00:13:57] Speaker C: Yeah, that's fine. It's kind of a little boring. [00:13:59] Speaker B: Dark Knight Returns. [00:14:01] Speaker C: It's just like Frank. Frank's work. I don't know. I'm saying it like I know, but I don't. But, like, I think. I think Dark Knight Returns isn't a bad book. I do like some aspects of the way he takes on an older Bruce because he, he, he gets injured. And that's something a lot of writers have never taken on. Unfortunately. He's got to be, you know, like 60 years old before we allow him to have injuries. And, you know, he's got goofy technology. [00:14:33] Speaker A: We gotta break his back in the 90s. [00:14:35] Speaker C: Yeah, [00:14:38] Speaker A: but it's Dark, man. [00:14:40] Speaker C: Yeah, yeah. I would say. I would say of those kind. You know, we do every time I Come on. These podcast shows, everybody brings up the. The dark, gritty reality comics of the 90s that everybody was doing where they're. They're deconstructing superheroes and, like. Okay, yeah, well, of those, I. I would say. I. I would put Dark Knight Returns above Watchmen. I'm sorry. I'm gonna get shot for that later. [00:15:07] Speaker B: Fair. [00:15:09] Speaker C: Well, my branding manager is in the room, and they just glared at me. [00:15:13] Speaker A: On that note, I. I will say. I will say that I. Greg, I did open the books. [00:15:21] Speaker B: Yes. [00:15:22] Speaker A: I do like the art inside. [00:15:24] Speaker B: Yes. [00:15:25] Speaker A: Better than that distorted Batman promo ad they sent out with everything. So I do like the. The. The Klaus inks better when I opened the book. The book so far is excessively wordy. [00:15:44] Speaker B: Yes. [00:15:44] Speaker A: And you're talking about Dark Knight. Yep. And we'll get there. But the reason I bring it up, that we're covering that with Randy, that. Randy picked that as a seminal moment in comics because it was right. Yeah, it did influence comics, and it contributed change comics. [00:15:59] Speaker C: After a couple years after it came out, though, like, I don't know how that works, because, look, I'm gonna be honest here. [00:16:06] Speaker A: I come on podcasting comics. [00:16:07] Speaker C: I feel like I come on this podcast and other people's podcasts, and there's a couple podcasts that are nice to me, but this one especially. I love you guys, but I'm just gonna say, I always feel like I'm coming into comics history for PBS when I'm on this podcast, like, the Tiny Desk of Comics podcast. And your. Your. Your knowledge is greater than mine, but I did work at a comic book shop at one point. That is not a claim to fame. That's a claim to. I was poor and I needed money. But side note, when Dark. I don't remember Dark Knight coming out. Dark Knight Returns coming out. I remember Dark Knight Returns a couple. About a year or two, maybe three Years later, when D.C. was still pushing it, and it kind of grew on everybody into something. But I just. I remember reading Drop and going, oh, well, it's Old Man Batman. Yay. You know, everybody just kept reading regular Batman. I think it grew on people. You know, I mean, I don't. [00:17:02] Speaker A: I don't have this book open. [00:17:04] Speaker C: I see. [00:17:04] Speaker B: That's different. [00:17:05] Speaker A: Doesn't help. But, I mean, they took the Legion. There's your art, Travis. I mean, this is the influence. This is 1989 right here. [00:17:12] Speaker C: Okay. [00:17:14] Speaker A: So there's your direct influence. [00:17:15] Speaker C: Everything goes back to Legion. [00:17:16] Speaker B: I got that. [00:17:17] Speaker A: Well, no, this is. And it goes back. I just want to Be clear. This is an example of why D.C. continued to promote it. Because look at Gif. Look at Giffen's art here and look at the darkness there. Legion was not super bright anymore. They took it that way. Right. There's a lot. Legion's not the only influence, but it's what I read. [00:17:35] Speaker C: I would say the killing, you said what you read was a little faster and hitting into the Zeitgeist than the Dark Knight. I think the Dark Knight got a big boost later when it got referenced as. As materials that were influential on Hollywood. But I feel like when I was. [00:17:53] Speaker A: Because of the movie. [00:17:53] Speaker C: Right, right. But I feel like when it came [00:17:55] Speaker A: out in 1989 and just like. [00:17:59] Speaker C: Right. And so I just feel like the book dropped, everybody. Oh, cool. And like, some hardcore fans were really into it and the rest of us were like, uh, okay, that's cool. Where's Robin? No, I'm kidding. [00:18:10] Speaker A: Well, but you're right, though, because we today are grabbing the book. That is a response to what happened to comics from those books. Because this book, Kingdom Come, was a response, a direct response to what the hell happened to my comic books. [00:18:30] Speaker C: I'm just going to say you have a hardcover, fake leather bound Bible, like, not just regular Bible, like door to door salesman bible from the 70s. Yeah. Version of Kingdom Come that you just flashed in case people listening who don't see the video of this. [00:18:46] Speaker A: I sure do. [00:18:47] Speaker C: Versus my trade paperback one that I just picked up at a shop. Like this one's two or three years ago was this volume. [00:18:58] Speaker A: I also have the original issues. I have it digitally. I have Kingdom Come in many different formats. Yes. [00:19:06] Speaker C: All right, all right, all right, I'm ready for this. Let's go. [00:19:09] Speaker B: It's the weirdest chick track I've ever read. I mean, honestly, I wasn't joking when I said. What do you guys got me reading? Some copy of the Watchtower. This is some dark stuff. [00:19:24] Speaker A: Well, before we open the book, Travis, I just want to say I grabbed. I grabbed my copy of the American Comic Book Chronicles because you do think it's like a PBS history show of comics. And for those of you that don't know, I also had something out, but I threw it away just before. But, Travis, I had my Kendall Hunt Publishing royalty check out on my desk, and I was going to show it to you on the podcast. [00:19:52] Speaker B: Damn, Dan. [00:19:55] Speaker A: Just to remind you that I am actually a published author. [00:19:58] Speaker C: It's been like 10, 15 years and you're still mad at me for that? [00:20:02] Speaker A: Yep. [00:20:04] Speaker B: He's always gonna remember He's a damn elephant. Travis. [00:20:11] Speaker A: For those of you that don't know the story, I think Travis and I told it one one of the times he was on the podcast. But Travis jokingly said to me that I couldn't go to dinner with everybody because it was only for published authors. [00:20:24] Speaker C: I am a jerk in real life if you guys don't know that. That's why you never see me in panels at cons. Nobody dares invite me. [00:20:31] Speaker B: You, You've been. [00:20:32] Speaker A: I'd love to have you on a panel at a con. [00:20:33] Speaker C: And what happened? What happened? Never ever again. [00:20:41] Speaker B: Yeah, you did make it interesting. [00:20:43] Speaker A: Well, let me read this quote before we get started because, Travis, this is it. It says, if Kingdom Come sounds like a commentary on the state of superhero comic books during the 1990s, it is. As writer Wade reported, eventually, it's the Image universe taking over dc. Wade saw Kingdom Come as a satire on the brutality of the many decades post popular superhero book. Most popular superhero books. As both a traditionalist and tremendous fan of Superman, which he writes right now in 2026, Wade felt appalled by the kind of vicious heroism on display in many image comic books, far removed from the idea ideals Wade believed in. So that's just a start before we even get into this. But it was a response. That's why I brought the other up. So we're going to cover the other with Randy in a couple weeks. But I thought it's a good thing to turn it around since you picked this. I think it is a good thing to tie the two episodes together. Right. Like, I do think that makes some sense. [00:21:37] Speaker C: When this is over, no one's ever, ever going to have me on a podcast again. [00:21:42] Speaker A: I just don't think that's true. Like, you've talked to me about some of your criticism of this book before, and I think that they. I probably share some of them, but I. I think the fun thing about this is you were. You're. I already know you're going to point out some of the, like, panel progression and things like that in the book. [00:21:56] Speaker C: Just hold on. Let me have my rant. Let me have my rant later. [00:21:59] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:22:00] Speaker B: So to step away for one second. I'm sorry, I got to continue. I'll be right back. [00:22:04] Speaker A: Really? Greg, just leaving. [00:22:06] Speaker C: Bring back some poppers. [00:22:07] Speaker B: If I don't leave, the dogs will not stop barking. [00:22:10] Speaker A: Ups just showed up. Greg's leaving right as Travis and I are about to get into this book. Well, I know. [00:22:15] Speaker B: I'm sorry. [00:22:16] Speaker C: Just go take care of the dogs. [00:22:18] Speaker A: It's it's, you know, I think. So we're getting into this book. I think number one, Kingdom Come. Just as a lead in for folks, it was a DC Elseworlds book drawn by Alex Ross, where Alex Ross, by his own admission, got to draw every fantasy character he ever wanted to draw and then come up with even more based off Wade's script. I would say painted would be the. I guess. Well, he penciled them first and then painted them. He does do a lot of his paintings off of. If you know anything about Alex Ross, he does a lot of his paintings off of human figures, so. But he doesn't do all of them. Right, Travis. So he'll pick characters and he'll paint those characters off of human figures. Correct. And then the rest of the page is painted without that. Correct. [00:23:07] Speaker C: As far as I know, he uses references for every panel based on every panel. Yeah. As far as I know, based on interviews that I've read from him. Again, I have not met Alex Ross. I did stand next to him one time in San Diego where he was selling a painting or something, but he seemed like a very nice person. Just want to point that out. [00:23:27] Speaker A: Yes. And I think the difference is you'll probably find Alex Ross pictures hanging in my house and not in Travis's house. [00:23:35] Speaker C: You just find Power Pack in my house. [00:23:37] Speaker A: Yeah. So, but we. We get started, we jump into this book. The book. Mark Wade wrote it with Alex Ross. Alex Ross penciled, inked it, obviously painted it. So not inking. They have veteran Todd Klein lettering it. So, you know, the lettering is going to be good. And Yeah, I mean, they put together an All Star panel here at the time. Mark Wade's involved with the Flash, had. Had been involved with Legion of Superheroes. Mark Wade was also involved with Final Night, wasn't he, Travis? The where the Sun Eater Comes and Tries to Destroy the DC Universe. [00:24:17] Speaker C: Are you seriously doing this gosh darn freaking historian stuff on me again? [00:24:22] Speaker A: Yep. That's what I do here. [00:24:23] Speaker C: But he does. [00:24:25] Speaker A: You're the one that worked in the comic shop. You should know. [00:24:27] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:24:27] Speaker A: So that's what we're at. [00:24:29] Speaker C: I bought manga. [00:24:32] Speaker B: Yeah, we. [00:24:33] Speaker A: And. And that's why you. [00:24:34] Speaker C: Yes. [00:24:36] Speaker A: So we opened this book and we jump to page one, and we've got a lot of lightning and red stuff. [00:24:47] Speaker C: Hang on, let me go check that. I forgot to do the digital again. I know I have it. I just got this. [00:24:53] Speaker A: You're finding out digital. I'm using my big book. [00:24:55] Speaker C: So the thing is, is the digital like my brain's getting mushed by computers all day. And so, like, if I can write a physical copy. Okay. Yeah, it's an American flag, eagle thingy. And a bat. Yeah, because it's a bat out of hell. [00:25:09] Speaker A: You know, it's super. You know what's super frustrating about this? About that comic you're, you're looking at. I don't think there are page numbers. [00:25:17] Speaker B: And that's what makes a good comic a good comic. [00:25:19] Speaker C: Am I right? Oh, my God. Oh, my God. 200 pages and not one dang page number. [00:25:27] Speaker B: I know. That was. [00:25:28] Speaker C: Side note, side note, can we just go off here about some business stuff? Let's just talk about the comics business. Yeah, Greg, we, we have a comic that's been delayed together. [00:25:39] Speaker B: Right. [00:25:39] Speaker C: And it's been delayed because it hasn't the most. Well, project managed. It's out now. But can I just point out that one of the problems we had, and this is going to make Dan cheer, was communicating what pages issues there were issues with because we had converted 200 pages of content from seven issues of 24 with other dressing content into one giant book and didn't put any page numbers on the original comics or in the new graphic novel. And holy hell, was that a nightmare, because every time you send in a red line, you get a something back going. What? This isn't page 16. Do you know what page this is? You have to go back and try to do the math to figure out where page 16 is now. But it's actually not page 16. It's page 12 or 14 or 22. Then you, you can't just say page 22. You have to say it's the page where this happens on it kind of between these other two pages around 16 or 17 in your set. So I will say right now, I owe you an apology, Dan. [00:26:46] Speaker A: Well, if you didn't kill Chris, this wouldn't happen to you. [00:26:50] Speaker B: Spoiler. [00:26:51] Speaker C: He's never coming back, ever. [00:26:56] Speaker A: Oh, I know. Unless I write a prequel with him in it. [00:27:01] Speaker C: Technically, that's not coming back, sir. [00:27:05] Speaker A: Anyway, this book, however, I do find it. So I, I, I, I, I do want to point out, though, as we, we get into this too. Let's talk about the state of the comics industry in the 90s. And now Mark Wade's writing a book now called World's Finest, where he's doing Superman and Batman stories, and he writes it. Travis, you, I know you haven't read the book, but you would love the book. It's written in a way where he'll just pull from Any part of the history he wants to and just write the story and, and fuck all right. Like he's, he's just gonna tell that part of the story right there. You might be able to link it to some sort of, of piece of their history somewhere, right. As a in depth reader. But he's just like, you know what? I wanna write a three page issue where they're fighting Bizarro on Bizarro World. And I wanna do that. And I'm gonna pull Supergirl from like the 80s and the Batman and Robin from the 80s and do that. And then I'm gonna do one from the 90s and I'm gonna tell that story for three issues and then I'll do one from over here. So that's where Mark Waid, editor, historian, very knowledgeable about comics, but also having fun writing the characters that he enjoys. And that's really what this book was too, because this is a tribute, this book. You pick a book that is a tribute to the golden age of DC Comics and then you go, dan, I don't want to talk about history. [00:28:25] Speaker C: That's why I picked this book. [00:28:28] Speaker A: So we wouldn't talk about history. No history. In this book. [00:28:31] Speaker C: Conflict sells. [00:28:33] Speaker B: I honestly, Dan, Travis, both of you guys, I honestly feel like this book, if Mark Waid did not do this book, he could never do the Archie books that he did in the future. [00:28:44] Speaker A: You know, I think he took it to the Archie books with the same zeal that he took to this. [00:28:48] Speaker B: I know, that's what I'm saying. [00:28:51] Speaker A: Yeah. And you know, it's interesting at the time too, because he's writing, he's writing Wall E in Flash, so he is certainly capable of taking a newer character. Right? Obviously, Kid Flash, not a newer character, but the Wally west mythos, as the Flash build that universe impulse new character, you know, he's able to do those things. But, you know, here we get his meta critique of comics and with Alex Ross's art. And so also for those of you that don't know, um, the. Well, we'll get to it in one second. So I don't want to, I don't want to jump ahead to Norman McKay yet. Uh, but yeah, we get this very interesting cover. And by the way, Travis, you, you know, you also picked a comic I used to give college lectures on, so [00:29:40] Speaker B: good job. [00:29:43] Speaker A: So we've got a page that, like you said, has an eagle and a bat and there's a pokey thing. [00:29:56] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah, it's got the thing that. [00:29:58] Speaker C: Did you say that in your Lectures on. On this in your class, probably. [00:30:02] Speaker B: I mean, how. [00:30:03] Speaker C: Like, give me 500 words on the pokey thing. [00:30:07] Speaker A: And. But it says there were voices, thunder, lightning and an earthquake. And then we flipped the page and you see it. It looks like a. It looks like a. Like a Guarnica, Help me Guara. Pablo Picasso kind of background, isn't it? [00:30:29] Speaker B: I thought you were talking about Battlestar Galactica for a second. I was like, oh, okay, yeah, [00:30:38] Speaker A: No, abstract. I mean, you see characters, but it's all abstract in the background, right? [00:30:42] Speaker C: Oh, this thing. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. [00:30:45] Speaker A: Would be the second, like the fall of. [00:30:50] Speaker C: Of the angels and the gods, you know, there's definitely paradise loss going on here. [00:30:56] Speaker B: Yes. [00:30:57] Speaker A: And we've got somebody holding a lightning bolt, which is going to play into the story later on. So I. I do like that. A lot of the paintings, too. There's hints about what's going to come forward in the story. And if you've never read the story, you don't know what the hints are. One of the really cool things about reading this story, which probably drives Travis nuts for Dan, but I love it, is every time I read the story, I find something new in it, in the art, because Alex Ross keeps painting stuff in the backgrounds, and there's always little pieces there. But we get to the couple pages and we do get into a character again that became Refamous because of the 90s and because of Vertigo, and that's Wesley Allen Dodd. So that was the original Sandman of the golden age. They had famously done a comic. It was Sandman Mystery Theater. Right. Travis? I think it was on the Vertigo line. [00:31:57] Speaker C: Can you just get a YouTube channel for this stuff or what? Like, there's a whole. You can join that Matt TTT guy or something. Just do history stuff. [00:32:04] Speaker A: Yeah, well, that is my podcast, is what we do. [00:32:07] Speaker C: Yeah, a little bit. [00:32:10] Speaker A: A little bit. [00:32:11] Speaker C: Side note, his thing on the pennies is one of the greatest YouTube lecture essays ever. [00:32:17] Speaker A: Well, maybe I should do this, Travis. You know, it's like, it could be fun, but we've got a. We've got a man named. We find out his name is Norman McKay, and he's talking to Wesley Allen Dodds about the visions he's having. So when they did Sandman Mystery Theater and some of the eras of Sandman, they expanded his power set to see dreams. Right. And obviously that's the newer Sandman too. Right. Like being in the dreams. So they sort of expand his power set out, and he's talking to this man as he's Dying in the hospital about everything he's seeing. And you get a little flashback, I think it's page six there of him in the sandman mask in the original costume from the golden Age and him seeing himself there. And he's just asking. Basically he's asking his. His pastor to counsel him and. Yeah, and then it ends with them putting him in the grave and the pastor bemoaning that, you know, nobody came out to see him except him and his wife and a couple of other people. And you know, that it. It's just like, not again. We get kind of a. It just wasn't like what it was in the glory days. And down toward the bottom of the page they have a paper and daily. They have a Daily Planet newspaper and it says UNN acts more metahuman censures. Well, censors curb metahuman violence and like 91% of people say, no, it will not. So that's the first couple pages. So I'll pause in the. And kind of telling people what's there and get your all's initial reaction to the start of the story. So we've introduced. We've introduced a main character so far. We're going to see him for a few more pages. What are yalls thoughts on that main character and where we're going with the story? [00:34:11] Speaker C: I think Greg said it best earlier. It feels like a watchtower. [00:34:17] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:34:18] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:34:20] Speaker B: It's got the fire and the brimstone and it's trying to scare the crap out of you and make you go, oh gosh, I need salvation. Where do I turn to? And then like I said, the weirdest chick track of them all. [00:34:36] Speaker A: I don't know what you mean. [00:34:37] Speaker C: The little books. [00:34:38] Speaker B: Yeah, those little books. You find them in the bathroom. Yeah, little chick tracks. You know, you find them in the bathrooms and stuff like that. Like on the. On the top of the track Track. That's what I said. [00:34:48] Speaker C: Chick Tracked. [00:34:50] Speaker B: Tracked. Tracked, yes. [00:34:54] Speaker C: So I just want to say. I'm just going to take us down another tangent real quick. I don't know if anyone's familiar with zombie orifice entertainment. I gotta write some stuff for them a couple years ago, but they. They made a movie about that stuff. Tracks. Yeah, it's. They made two things. They made. They made. They made a. A actual. Like a mini video of the one about Dungeons and Dragons. Yeah. Turning the girl into a Satanist or whatever. But then they made a movie called Attacking the Darkness and it's a movie about making a movie on those. And it goes off The Rails, too. They attack a band? No, no. [00:35:36] Speaker B: Oh, no. I thought they attacked the Darkness. That's a good band. [00:35:42] Speaker C: Why would you attack them, little thing? Sir, sir, sir. Yeah, I'm doing a promo here for a movie, so there you go. Okay, we're back. [00:35:55] Speaker A: Well, okay. Well, the main character goes through the city, and he's. He's walking through the city. He's giving us his own thoughts on what's going on, about the bitterness. But he mentioned some things have disappeared, like the Olympic Games and Nobel Prize. Sounds like now. He's going through this. And you seeing a cityscape with a lot of graffiti. You get a reference to Watchmen on the graffiti, which is interesting. So there's a tie back to that. So there are some blatant shots taken at the dark and gritty start of comics. Also, Travis, I don't know if you caught this one, but if you go down to the bottom of that page, under the Hood by Hollis Mason is in the bookstore, actually. [00:36:43] Speaker C: I was just staring at that. [00:36:45] Speaker A: Yeah. So you've got behind the Mask as well. [00:36:47] Speaker C: Yeah, behind the Mask and Under the Hood. [00:36:48] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah. And so you do get direct references to Watchmen. So if they're taking shots at the dark and gritty start of comics, they're not. They're not shy about it. Like, it's right here ever. [00:36:59] Speaker C: World Series. [00:37:01] Speaker A: Yep. And so that also tells us this comic came out in 96. So we know this comic is set in the future past then. And we're seeing. [00:37:11] Speaker C: You see, like, hey, we're quick. [00:37:13] Speaker A: Crashed into a building. [00:37:14] Speaker C: Just. Just. Just a moment here. [00:37:16] Speaker A: Yep. [00:37:18] Speaker C: Is that the car from Evil Dead where at panel one [00:37:29] Speaker A: might be. [00:37:30] Speaker C: Be just. Okay, we'll move on. [00:37:32] Speaker A: Yeah, there's. There's a whole bunch of things in this book. Like, that's. That's one of the things I saying I like about this book, because in the paintings, there's, like, the Rockham sock and robots there. I mean, you. You. Every time you read this, you keep seeing stuff. I actually. I'll point something out that I saw yesterday when I was looking at it. That has always been here. But I was just like, I think I've noticed it a couple times, but I was like, why is that? There's. We flip a page and you find. You find Norman going into a restaurant called Planet Krypton. [00:38:02] Speaker C: Tell what year it is. [00:38:04] Speaker A: The what? [00:38:05] Speaker C: Well, Planet Hollywood had just been, you know, a thing. So, you know. [00:38:10] Speaker A: Ah, that's what they're riffing, right? [00:38:11] Speaker C: Yeah, yeah. And also Pulp Fiction kind Of took a stab at that too. So just, just a reminder, like this era, there was this whole idea of these nostalgic restaurants. Now I want to say that the first time I ever had buffalo wings was in Washington D.C. at the Planet Hollywood. [00:38:29] Speaker A: There you go. [00:38:30] Speaker C: There you go. [00:38:30] Speaker A: And, and they're taking a direct reference there. You've got. It's got basically like the Super Friends on the front, but with Lobo on the side, which is hilarious. It's like a cartoon Lobo. [00:38:43] Speaker C: Yeah. Actually he did a good job making that look like it's like campaigned by someone who has adequate talent to make these things. [00:38:52] Speaker A: Yeah. Oh, yeah. And then we get into the restaurant itself and Norman's greeted by a man dressed as Hal Jordan that says, good afternoon, citizen. How may I serve you? And you look through the restaurant and you get, you do you get a couple shots. So you get a flash, an Aquaman, a Wonder Woman, a Supergirl, a Captain Marvel, also known as Shazam. But you also get Carrie the Robin. [00:39:31] Speaker C: Yeah, there she is. Just knows that for the first time. [00:39:33] Speaker A: Right? So another subtle shot at, you know, in the critique. Like, so, like, again, if you, if you were concerned that this wasn't a critique, there's all sorts of little jabs in this book. The other thing you get, Travis, look up top and you've got Sugar and Spike from the Silver Age. [00:39:54] Speaker B: So, [00:39:56] Speaker A: you know, which is crazy. I was like, why is that here? It's in the window at the top. [00:40:04] Speaker C: No, Is that a screen or a window or screen? [00:40:07] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah. [00:40:08] Speaker C: And then also the Batplane. [00:40:11] Speaker A: Yeah, well, you get a Batplane, you get Superman's spaceship. You get the boxing glove. Arrow on the wall. [00:40:19] Speaker C: Who is B? Comics historian. [00:40:23] Speaker A: Who is the comics historian? [00:40:25] Speaker C: No, who is B? Who's there to see Booster Gold. [00:40:30] Speaker A: Oh, who is B? That is fire. She's right in the middle. Beatrice D. Costa is right there. Yeah, so sorry, I was getting to the end of that. Right in the middle of the page. So you've got. [00:40:41] Speaker C: Thought I had you on that one. [00:40:42] Speaker A: No, you don't have me on that. She's right in the middle of the page. I was going to cover that after we saw. So you do see actually alive characters, right. Veteran that are now visiting that. And I believe Booster Gold owns this. [00:40:57] Speaker B: Do you think that the bagels are pre toasted here? [00:41:01] Speaker A: I don't think they're pre toasted. Why not pre toast bagels? [00:41:04] Speaker B: Sure you can. Travis, what do you think? [00:41:06] Speaker C: I'm not doing this again. I feel like we did this. [00:41:10] Speaker A: Well, we flipped the page. And Norman's leaving the restaurant. And he notes the sandman has gone to his grave without one grain of faith in the future. And the saddest part was he was far from alone. And we also get right in the middle of the page. Who is that? Do you see, Greg where the stoplight is? And then look to the right. And who is that right on the billboard there? [00:41:44] Speaker B: I can't tell. That's the hard part about seeing this. [00:41:47] Speaker A: That is Jimmy Olsen within one of his superpower Personas. [00:41:50] Speaker B: Oh, my goodness. [00:41:52] Speaker A: From the Silver Age. [00:41:53] Speaker B: Okay, [00:41:56] Speaker A: so, all right, I'll stop doing every single panel. Travis. Of every cool thing I find in the panel. But is this. [00:42:02] Speaker B: That. That'll make this a four hour podcast. [00:42:05] Speaker C: Yeah. I just want to say Greg has things to do, [00:42:11] Speaker A: but it is cool that they have a Jimmy Olsen ran right in the middle of the page. [00:42:15] Speaker B: There were page numbers. We're on page five for those who are following along. [00:42:20] Speaker A: Yeah, well, I'm on page 22 because I'm in a different version of the book. But yes, please keep them up. Tell them. And then. And then we flip the page and we get to see the future that Norman has been talking about. So we see a giant superhero fight. The one basically, you've got. I can tell you the. The one at the top because I have that one memorized. That is supposed to be Starfire and Dick Grayson's daughter, which makes sense. It looks just like. That would be their daughter. Of the Teen Titans. Of the new Teen Titans, which, as Travis knows, has. Has let people know was actually a popular book. [00:43:03] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:43:03] Speaker C: Which one is supposed to be that? [00:43:05] Speaker A: The woman at the top of the page. [00:43:08] Speaker C: That makes a lot of sense. [00:43:09] Speaker A: Yep. [00:43:10] Speaker B: Okay. [00:43:11] Speaker A: And you also get a thunderbolt on the side. Yep. So like the. Say you. That thunderbolt. Like Johnny Thunderbolt, but it's a woman thunderbolt. [00:43:26] Speaker C: So her name is Night Star. [00:43:29] Speaker A: Yeah, her name is Nightstar. The. The character. Where are you pulling that from, Travis? [00:43:36] Speaker C: My copy of this came with, like, an encyclopedia for the second half of the book. Of every detail of this book. [00:43:41] Speaker A: Yeah. As is mine. And mine are prettier and bigger. [00:43:45] Speaker B: Jeez. Oh, my gosh. It's a. [00:43:48] Speaker C: Talking about how pretty and big we are during this podcast. It's getting a little weird. [00:43:51] Speaker A: I love talking about how pretty and big I am, so put it away. [00:43:55] Speaker B: It's a book measuring contest. [00:43:59] Speaker A: The. But I think, you know, in this. [00:44:03] Speaker C: God, these pencils are good. [00:44:05] Speaker B: Who's the one that looks like an alien? [00:44:07] Speaker A: Did you say the pencils were Good. [00:44:09] Speaker C: Yeah, always. Pencils are great. [00:44:11] Speaker A: How's the sequencing? [00:44:14] Speaker C: There's no sequencing back here. [00:44:16] Speaker A: I know. I'll let you talk about that in a second. We flipped a page, though, and Norman. No, Greg, not my phone. I, unlike you, would never leave my phone on in the middle of a podcast to make noises. [00:44:33] Speaker C: I. Oh, well, there's a whole layout back here. [00:44:37] Speaker A: Yeah. And on the flip page, we have Norman, kind of the protagonist so far, right? Well, I would say more narrator than protagonist, but saving a little girl who's caught in the crossfire of these superheroes. He's kind of just lamenting the fact that these heroes have forgotten, like, what they're fighting for. They're supposed to be their protectors, but they're just fighting fights, fighting battles for the sake of. Of fighting battles. And the fight continues on. And they all sort of look up in horror at a screen, and it says, bulletin from the Daily Planet. And there's a big red circle, target circle around Kansas. And Norman McKay says, Time has not yet run out for humanity. And then everybody looks at the sign, and he says, I am wrong. And he said, and there followed hail fire mingled with blood. And we flipped a page. So that's our setup. Or, sorry, there's a tiny bit more setup for the story. Apologize. He goes back to his congregation, and he scares the crap out of them as the pastor and sends them away, and he's like, yeah, what has happened? Basically, I've scared everybody. And then he says at the end, Kansas proved it, thanks to the superhumans. The end is near, and the word of God so very far away. And then the specter appears. So we are in full tribute to the Golden Age. Now, if this. [00:46:14] Speaker B: We've. [00:46:15] Speaker A: We've had Wesley Dodds now we've got the Specter showing up [00:46:20] Speaker C: crazy. [00:46:21] Speaker A: And how familiar are you with the Specter, Travis? Did you read any. Any of those books? [00:46:27] Speaker B: Nope. [00:46:29] Speaker C: Yeah, so to be fair, I know who the Specter is, and I am familiar, right? I did not read. Yeah, I did not read the Specter comics, though. [00:46:37] Speaker A: Did you read any of them? [00:46:38] Speaker C: None of the old ones are the medium ones. [00:46:40] Speaker A: Yeah, I mean, I have not read a lot of them either. I've read more of the modern ones. I want to go back someday. I understand the. The reintroduction of the specter in the Silver Age is just some fantastic art. The Specter in the Golden Age initially was just kind of a superhero that walked around like all the superheroes in All Star did, you know? And if you go way back in the original All Star comics, even though they were part of the Justice Society in the stories for the most, for a long time, they didn't function together as a team. It would be like, here's a cover with everybody on it, and then we're going to have four stories, and one story is going to be about each superhero, right? And then maybe they come back together at the end, and it's like solving a problem. But that's generally how it functioned. So it happened a lot differently then than you might expect. Right? And so, you know, it's. Then you would expect now, if you were a modern read, then you would expect that. But I'm saying now, if you read comics now, you'd expect a team book with a team on the COVID to be like, ah, here's the team going to fight the bad guy. And it wasn't that at all. And so the Specter kind of was a. A shitty fan or not. Phantom. Who knows what evil lurks in the hearts of men? The Shadow. Shitty version of the Shadow. [00:48:06] Speaker B: Shitty shadow, yeah. [00:48:08] Speaker A: In DC Comics. [00:48:11] Speaker B: Shadow. [00:48:12] Speaker A: And then now. But then later, they succeededly made him into the, quote, wrath of God. Right? So he would come out of the wall and be uber powerful. Oh, like diarrhea and final crisis. Like diet Too soon. [00:48:24] Speaker C: Too soon. [00:48:26] Speaker A: Okay? This person comes to Norman McKay and basically says, hey, you're responsible now. You get to see the Sandman visions. And you're going to be the one that relays this vision back to the reader. So. Okay, now I'll pause there. Y' all can't. You okay with the tr. The setup, Travis, or did you have a critique of the setup of the story? [00:48:51] Speaker C: Yeah, it's boring. [00:48:52] Speaker A: It's boring. [00:48:54] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:48:57] Speaker B: But beautiful. [00:49:00] Speaker A: So you don't want to read a. You don't want to read a comic where you need a. To watch a PBS documentary to understand everything is happening in the beginning? [00:49:06] Speaker C: Yes, that's exactly my point. Look, so look, this is not bad writing, right? There's nothing wrong with what's happening here. My issue that I have with it is it's a bit dated, and I get that that's part of what Mark Wade is trying to do, right? Like, this is a more traditional narrative to get you in here, right? We're setting all the parts up. We're giving a little prologue here. You know, things are very nice, right? But, like, I don't have a clue what's going on with this book right now and why I'm buying it. And the only thing holding this book together if I'm a 90s kid, is Alex Ross, at the time had just come. What did he. Didn't he just do the Superman cover? Right before this, he did Marvel's. Is that what it was? [00:49:58] Speaker A: I think that. I think Marvel's came out before this. [00:50:00] Speaker C: I just remember. Yeah, yeah, yeah. The fancy covers, right? The. The paint covers. Yeah, yeah. And then before that, you knew him was the Terminator guy. So, like, I think that's carrying the book for people to want to continue. There's a whole saying, right? Your art will get them. Your art will sell the book, but the writing has to keep them. Has to keep them. [00:50:20] Speaker A: Yeah. Marvel's release date was with the acetate covers, and it was acetate covers and then art under the acetate cover that was 93. [00:50:28] Speaker C: And this came out. [00:50:29] Speaker A: And when this came out, 96. [00:50:31] Speaker C: Yeah, yeah. So, you know, this is. This is people going, oh, he did this great covers. Let's see what his sequentials look like. And. And that's fine. There's some beautiful art here. But I'm gonna go in that. We're gonna go into a section where. I'm gonna talk about that more here in a second. But I. I feel like Wade could have structured this in a little bit different way, but at the same time, at that time period, maybe not. Do you see what I'm saying? Like, sometimes we're victims of the environment we live in. Right? And, you know, somebody brings out something, they go, oh, those full of tropes. No, that's the thing that created the tropes. Right. And so he may not have had that ability, but reading it now in 2026, I'm like, for love of God, just start it with the Superman part. [00:51:21] Speaker A: Yeah. This comic book is longer too. Right, Right. [00:51:27] Speaker C: But right now I have a bunch of characters, and I'm reading a D.C. book. And if I'm a 90s kid and you're, like, walking. Watching two old dudes talk about God and death for, like, 10 pages, why am I buying this? You know? [00:51:44] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:51:44] Speaker C: Okay, so go on. [00:51:45] Speaker A: Well, and admittedly, I was not a 90s kid when this came out. I was, you know, I was. Huh, 22. [00:51:57] Speaker C: So still, there's no way you're that much older than me. I'm older than you. What are you talking about? [00:52:04] Speaker A: Born in 1974, I guess I was 21. This came out in July of 90. [00:52:09] Speaker C: Anyways. All right, let's go. Look, I always want to say, Mark, Wade's not a bad writer. This is not bad writing. I just like, every. And maybe because he's making a statement, but he could have taken a lesson for some of those image guys and got to the point faster than come back around after he hooked me with Superman. [00:52:27] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:52:27] Speaker C: And brought back the, you know, 10 page diatribe of religion. Because, honestly, as a formal Pentecostal preacher's grandson, reading my grandpa for 10 pages is boring as hell. [00:52:40] Speaker A: Yeah. Well, and see, I. [00:52:44] Speaker C: I'll. [00:52:44] Speaker A: I'll. If we get. If we ever get to the end of the book, I will take another crack at this, because I also have my history being a closeted gay man who was taught religion and taught how evil I was and that I was going to die and go to hell if I was gay, and that women should submit to husbands in marriage and all sorts of great things. Right. So I don't think this front page. I don't think the front of the book is doing that. [00:53:12] Speaker C: No. It just looks like my grandpa, you know, sitting his chair with some freaking legal paper and a stack of different Bibles and research concordances and writing a sermon for freaking 10 hours a day instead of doing something helpful. [00:53:27] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:53:27] Speaker C: Like it's fair. Delicious. [00:53:32] Speaker A: Or paying property taxes. But. [00:53:34] Speaker C: Oh, snap. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. [00:53:38] Speaker A: We just lost half the audience. Bye. So the. But yeah, we do flip the page, and now we get to see Norman seeing the story. Right. So now we're transitioning from him being the center of the story to him being more of the narrator of the story with the specter, like, going through and recounting what this future holds for us. And we get. [00:54:01] Speaker C: He gets screwed. [00:54:03] Speaker A: Yeah, we get Scrooge. Well, we get. [00:54:05] Speaker C: Oh, my. No, I know, but no, it's like in Scrooge, he gets, like, grabbed up [00:54:10] Speaker B: by a spirit and takes him away [00:54:12] Speaker C: to tell him a story. [00:54:14] Speaker B: Holy. [00:54:15] Speaker C: I just figured it out, Dan. [00:54:17] Speaker A: Good job. [00:54:18] Speaker B: Oh, my God. [00:54:20] Speaker A: Okay, you know what's gonna blow your mind even more when I talk to you about the. The Holy Trinity in this book. [00:54:26] Speaker B: Oh, my God. No, literally, oh, my God. [00:54:30] Speaker A: Well, I might as well say it now. Like, every reference to Batman, Robin and. Or Batman, Robin, Batman, Superman, and Wonder Woman being the Holy Trinity comes out of this story. Jesus in DC for the rest of time, which, Travis, I don't necessarily think is a great thing, but that's a whole big. [00:54:45] Speaker B: The spectre. The Holy Ghost. [00:54:48] Speaker A: No, he's not. Inspector's the wrath of God. [00:54:53] Speaker B: Well, who's the Holy Ghost? [00:54:56] Speaker C: We're not getting into that. It's a different channel. [00:54:57] Speaker A: We're not getting into that yet. I'M gonna have to pull up my PowerPoint and explain all that. [00:55:00] Speaker C: It's a different Dan. [00:55:01] Speaker A: That's a different Dan. [00:55:02] Speaker B: It's a different Dan at a different time. Okay. [00:55:04] Speaker A: Yes, got it. [00:55:05] Speaker B: Check. But it is summer. [00:55:07] Speaker A: So this is like, if you, if you, if you want the answer, I. I can give you the answer very quickly and then we can address it. But I think that Wonder Woman is Yahweh, that the Holy Spirit is Batman and the Christ is Superman, because there's nothing like a character created by Jewish kids being turned into a Christ figure, which they did do historically. You know, he comes from another planet. He comes to Earth, he saves Earth. And in this case, we're seeing that he's. After a couple pages of talking to Wonder Woman, we see that he's ascended to his farm because he couldn't handle the world. So Christ gone, world going to hell. Probably the easy summary of these pages. But he's. He's talking to Wonder Woman, comes to talk to Superman and try to get him to come back out of quote, unquote, retirement. We find out that he's lost his parents, that he's lost Lois Lane, that he saw society as irredeemable. By the way, a later, A later Mark Wade title, irredeemable and indie title. Good, Good book. [00:56:30] Speaker C: And, [00:56:33] Speaker A: you know, and, and the reaction to this of, you know, we get Norman's reaction to this, seeing this conversation, but Superman has zero interest in coming back. And then it's revealed that this big farm is actually just the fortress of Solitud. He's made the whole Fortress of Solitude his basically otherworldly place where he's ascended to left and he's not returning from there. And Wonder Woman breaks the illusion by hitting a button. And he just says, yeah, I'm not coming back question. And she says, I see. Do you live in nothing but lies, [00:57:13] Speaker C: Dan McClellan. That's the other Dan. Yeah, that's the Dan that you need to be talking to about your idea. Historian over here doesn't know what I'm talking about, but there you go. Your fans do. [00:57:29] Speaker B: I, I question about Superman's hair. Does his hair. Is his hair that long? Because no barber can cut his hair because it's so strong and scissors would break while trying to cut it. It's always a question. I wanted to know. [00:57:43] Speaker A: I think there's two reasons his hair is this long. One, because we know that, as Travis pointed out already, and we were talking that Wade used models or Wade used models, Ross used models. And I think this Was the model he used. I think the other reason the hair is this long is kind of a poke at the long haired Superman after he died and came back. You were not asking for a serious answer and then I gave you one. [00:58:11] Speaker B: No, no, no. I like a serious answer. It's really good. But it does beg the question, what kind of scissors does Superman use to cut his hair? [00:58:22] Speaker A: Well, Wonder Woman is somewhat successful. Kryptonian. [00:58:25] Speaker B: Kryptonian scissors. [00:58:28] Speaker C: We're here, Dan. We're here. This is the spot where I step in. Here's my problem. Alex Ross is an amazing illustrator. Years ago, when I was a kid at the comic book shop, right, Terminator comics came out from Now Comics. Coolest cover ever. First one, right? 90s It Girl, Terminator thing on the front cover. I buy it. Do you know what I didn't like about it? The art. And I couldn't figure out why, you know, like, it bugged me because like everybody's like, oh God, look how cool this is. It looked like nothing else. It looked like somebody from the Smithsonian had come to it from the heavens above and said, this, this is what art should look like. And I said, I don't like it. You know, and for years I thought about it, you know, and then so going on to that those covers came out, we just talked about and they were praised everywhere. And I will say, absolutely amazing, right? So glad that the guy from Terminator, right, The comic from now, right, Wasn't doing sequentials. Then this came out and everybody's like, man, you got to read this. This is big. [00:59:50] Speaker B: This is important. [00:59:51] Speaker C: Not everybody like one dude. But anyways. [00:59:54] Speaker B: But that's everybody in your time. [00:59:56] Speaker C: And I looked at it and so I spent the first couple pages going, pretty art. When does the story happen? There's no story still, right? Lots of Bible quotes and reminders that this is somehow doing something where like we're tying DC universe into the New Gods thing, you know. Side note, I think that was around the same time that book came out that basically made DC characters the new Gods and said superheroes are the modern mythos of faith based on things like the Roman and the Greeks. Like this is all a thing that's going on at the same time this is coming out. That's the context of this era. So not only is there new thing happening with image, right? You have all these guys going, this guy wrote this book where he said that the. The idea of gods and pantheons is, is. Is now represented in this, in the hieroglyphs of comic books. He's brilliant. And then everybody's like, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, we gotta get on that. We gotta get on that. We all gotta do. That's what everybody's gonna do from now on. DC superheroes aren't just superheroes. They're the new Roman gods. And everyone bought into this and still is buying it to this day. It gets on my freaking nerves. That aside, I. I flipped through this book back then and I realized what it is. I don't like Alex Ross's sequentials. I don't think they move the story forward. And the reason they don't move the story forward is everyone is in a pose, in a position that is a pose approximation of movement, not actual movement. And because he tries to make it so realistic and so much like that, that whenever there is should be movement, he resists giving it any form of cartooniness, which would give him action or something to help move the forms inside the panels from panel to panel. I think it interrupts the flow of the story. His art does, and I think it destroys the poetry of the panels. [01:01:54] Speaker A: One, I do think these two pages I'm looking at right now, the one where Superman is hovering with all the TV screens, and then the fight sequence on the next page illustrates exactly what you're talking about. So Superman floating and seeing all the still images on the TV screen that should be still images, right? Because it's a trapped moment in time. And then the concerned face he looks at and seeing Magog. Yeah, beautiful. The next page, where you have the action sequence where the parasite is cutting. And I'll explain what's happening to the readers in a second. But where the parasite is cutting into [01:02:28] Speaker C: Boba Fett's about to die again, [01:02:32] Speaker A: doesn't look good. Now, Peacemaker. Boba Fett's up in the corner, but. And the judo masters pose up in the top corner. Is awful. [01:02:42] Speaker C: Yeah. Yep. [01:02:44] Speaker A: But side note. So here, let me. Let me. Let me get into this. So Superman does come out of his lair. Wonder Woman lures him out. He goes and looks at the tv. He finds out that something has happened in Kansas, which everybody else was looking at. And he just says one word, Magog. We flip the page, and obviously, Magog fairly gog, fairly famous demon, right? So if you're looking at more mythos there, we flip the page and we finally find out what happened in Kansas. So the Justice Battalion that's being led by McGog, and we do have a bunch of ties here. Travis, you may grab some of the other characters, but just a couple I want to point out, is judomaster and Peacemaker, because he's taking more shots at Watchmen, because Watchmen were derivatives of the Charlton action heroes. Peacemaker, judomaster, Charlton action heroes. All of the Watchmen are derivatives of those heroes. So we're taking one more shot at the Watchmen a little bit, and the changeover. And so this is one of those things where I will say this. I think you can read this part of the story without knowing that and still enjoy it. But if you do know that part of the story, it's even more enjoyable. You don't know. You don't have to know who these characters are to understand the sequence. [01:04:07] Speaker C: You know, I'm going to be honest here. I didn't know who any of them were because they all look so foreign in this imagery. [01:04:14] Speaker B: And [01:04:16] Speaker C: the way this goes down, it's kind of stupid, but we'll move on. [01:04:19] Speaker A: Yeah, well. And of course, that is also the Parasite blowing up Captain Atom, which also Charlton action hero and also a giant blue man with a penis in Watchmen. [01:04:30] Speaker C: So I'm just saying, like, the parasite just accidentally tore Captain Adam in half. If Captain Adam was that weak, what the was he doing? I'm trying not to cuss. Being a superhero. That man should have been in a safe, away from all humanity, you know, like, protected with everything we had. Instead of starting a fight with a guy who has literally no skin. [01:04:55] Speaker A: Yeah. And we are introduced to Magog for the first time. We don't know anything about him yet, [01:04:59] Speaker C: but who's posing for the camera because that's how all of Alex's work looks. [01:05:04] Speaker B: Yeah. [01:05:05] Speaker C: Oh, well. [01:05:06] Speaker A: And Kaida. And then we get the next page, and you see the devastation in Kansas. And basically they let us know that the nuclear fallout has destroyed Kansas, parts of Nebraska, Iowa, Missouri. It's turned the farm belt into a wasteland, messed up the whole world economy. [01:05:33] Speaker B: Lighting is good. [01:05:34] Speaker C: Flying away. And there just feels like a bad special effect. [01:05:39] Speaker A: Yeah. Of the Wonder Woman flying away. [01:05:42] Speaker C: Yeah. And it's not because the art's bad. It's because, again, he wants to be so real. And I. Alex ever hears this, I love your art. Leave me the fuck alone. But anyways. But literally, just let there be some dynamicism to the. To the form. I mean, even the Greeks, naked bodies aren't to scale because it doesn't look right. That's what I got done. Yeah. [01:06:09] Speaker A: So see, that's why we. Travis, you said this would be bad. It's not. [01:06:14] Speaker B: No, you. [01:06:14] Speaker C: You. [01:06:15] Speaker A: I. [01:06:15] Speaker B: You're putting out the things that you feel about it, Travis. And that. [01:06:19] Speaker C: Have you ever landed any zeppelins on this building? Because it has a zeppelin. It has a zeppelin lining the pad on it. Anyways, sorry, what? [01:06:26] Speaker B: No, no, you're putting. [01:06:27] Speaker A: Well, now we're going to get another sequence. And this is where I'll give my critique of the comic a little bit. I do think this part is a little slow, the whole bringing the band back together piece. But I also think the pages, they are. Again, this is. This is. These are pages designed to show off his art. So. [01:06:46] Speaker C: And as a writer, you should absolutely do what's on these pages. [01:06:50] Speaker A: Yeah. So the specter comes back and says, hey, basically, Norman, let's go take a look at the rest of the world. And we see Keystone City. So very important. We're not in Central City. We're in Keystone City. Clearly indicating the Golden Age Flash, not the Silver Age Flash. And we get the original Flash with the winged Mercury helmet. And he's there, and he's guarding his entire city. So basically, the Flash has become basically, like. I don't know, some people would call it a guardian, but I would call it, like, not great. Like, he's patrolling the whole city, so no crime happens. That seems terrifying. We flip another page, and we find out that Hawkman has become an environmental terrorist in the northwest. [01:07:41] Speaker C: Protector. [01:07:43] Speaker A: It says terrorist Protector. We find out that. We find out that the Golden Age Green Lantern has now created his own basically, satellite and looks down at the Earth from his throne. By the way, beautiful art on all these pages. [01:08:00] Speaker B: Oh, yeah. [01:08:00] Speaker C: Dude. Is that the yellow ufo? [01:08:03] Speaker A: Might, maybe. Might be. [01:08:05] Speaker B: The music in that place must just be amazing. [01:08:09] Speaker C: That's his little skate rink. [01:08:11] Speaker B: Oh, my gosh. [01:08:13] Speaker A: And then we flip the page and we find out the gods of yesteryear. This is the words on the book. No longer walk among the humans. Norman McKay and Norman McKay. This is the specter saying it to him instead. Cued by superhumans. Superman, surrender. Sorry. They journey apart, divorced from the common men whom they once served. They have lost themselves to ancient civilizations in future times. They have left humanity to its own fate. And you see that the descendants of Superman have gone to the future to hang out with the Legion of Superheroes. Right in the middle of the page. And, Travis, I will say this. You're asking where it does here? Here is something where I did think they did a good job. They gave the Legion the costumes of the book that was out at the time. So here, if you were reading DC books, you did know who these people were. You didn't have to go back to, like, the silver age and have a reference [01:09:09] Speaker C: that's good. But then that bottom panel, and you're like, come on, man. [01:09:15] Speaker A: Yeah, well, I don't think that bottom panel should be there. I think it should be on the next page. I think they should have left that future skate panel. [01:09:24] Speaker C: Yep, yep, yep, though. And then we're gonna have three or four pages dedicated to Batman. Can we just skip past this? [01:09:31] Speaker A: Yeah, well, we have to talk about it. [01:09:33] Speaker C: Greg has to go somewhere, man. And, like, these Batman pages are just. [01:09:36] Speaker A: Greg. If you look down in the bottom corner of. Of the page there with Legion on it, you can see Fortress Lad is down there, so. [01:09:42] Speaker B: Oh, I see. [01:09:44] Speaker A: Yeah. [01:09:45] Speaker C: Yes. [01:09:48] Speaker A: Yeah. So, yeah, we don't have to cover all the Batman pages, but we do get a. A sequence of pretty art where we learn about what Batman is doing. So an older Batman is patrolling Metropolis, or Metropolis, Gotham City, similar to the way that the Flash is exploring, doing Keystone City. Right. Like, he's out there basically maintaining order and justice in his city. [01:10:14] Speaker B: Lighting is so good, though. Like, I mean, look at that. That red on these characters. [01:10:22] Speaker A: It's just one. I think a lot of this, too, is this one. These pages are a straight thievery from the Paul Dini art on Batman, the Animated Series. I mean, would you all not agree with that? Like, the tone of this. [01:10:40] Speaker B: Yeah. [01:10:42] Speaker A: Which came out, what, two years before this initially, so. Yeah, but, I mean, it's. It's beautiful art. [01:10:50] Speaker C: Yeah. [01:10:50] Speaker A: I mean, like, total reason. But you're right, Travis. We can skip the pages because there's no words on them. We just get to see what Batman's doing. So. And it's summarized by the Spectre. Just saying the Batman. Batman has his city under control. [01:11:05] Speaker C: Of course. [01:11:09] Speaker A: So we get back to another page in Norman McKay says, that's all. That's what you wanted to show me. And the spectre's like, this disturbs you, he said. And McKay's like, yes, you're an angel. That makes you a messenger of hope. And he's like, at no time did I promise you hope, because obviously the specter is the wrath of God. He's not a angel of hope, not an angel. But Norman Case, fighting with an angel, basically arguing with him, screaming at him. And then it leads us into. He's talking about the destruction of Kansas. All these people who call themselves heroes share a silent guilt. They're not doing anything. And then we get to a fight scene, and we do get a couple references in the fight. We do have Another Johnny Thunder. We have Joaquim Thunder down there. Do you see that reference to that in the middle of the page? [01:12:03] Speaker C: Greg, I'm gonna go back to another problem because Alex is using, I think, a lot of 100%. Like, someone's throwing in the comments. Be like, charles, just shut. You don't know what you're talking about. That's okay. But all these characters, if this was a movie, they all are bad. And wooden actors, like, none of these poses feel legitimate. They feel like somebody posed and he said, give me a shocked expression, and then he painted a bad actor giving a wooden performance. [01:12:33] Speaker A: I do think I agree with you. I also think, though, that some of that is intentional because, like, if you flip the page here and we get the introduction of the Joker's daughter and the really weird Mr. Terrific in the middle, the Fair Play banner on his. On his uniform. I think these are supposed to be sort of background characters. Like, I think they're supposed to be background characters to the main characters. [01:12:57] Speaker C: Yeah. Well, not just that, though. If you go into, like, look at the response, the other characters, like the, the people, even the page before, when they're running, they're posed like people posing poorly, not people taking action because they're bad actors. They don't actually know how to pose correctly. [01:13:15] Speaker A: Yeah. [01:13:15] Speaker C: You know, it's like it's a bunch of B or C list actors who, you know, don't realize that the, the. And that's not Alex's fault, maybe. But, like, these are wooden performances being captured. [01:13:29] Speaker A: Well, maybe it is, though, because, I mean, I'm glancing over at my giant poster of Alex. [01:13:34] Speaker C: This guy's goddamn goatee looks like trash. [01:13:36] Speaker A: Yeah, I'm. I'm looking at my big poster down here, which you've seen before. Travis of the Crisis poster. Right. Where Alex Ross is painting over George Perez's pencils. Right. [01:13:48] Speaker B: Yep. [01:13:48] Speaker A: And you've got better expressions, I think. [01:13:52] Speaker C: Yep. [01:13:53] Speaker A: So you're not. I mean, I, I think it's a fair criticism of the approach they take with the book. And now it's going to drive me nuts when I keep looking at it, because you keep pointing out things in a book that I love. And now I'm going to be looking at the sad things. But basically there's a big superhero fight. They knock down a what Is that a skylift? [01:14:17] Speaker B: Yeah, like a sky trolley, like, you know. [01:14:20] Speaker A: Yeah. [01:14:22] Speaker B: Or like a what? [01:14:23] Speaker A: And. And we do get the static poses. Travis is talking about every. Look up in the sky because he's back. There's Superman he's grabbed the fair play person and. And the Joker's daughter and somebody else, and he's carrying them away from the fight. And Norman says he hadn't turned his back on us. He stands in the sky. Faith is rewarded. He's returned. So if you're buying into my. Travis, I don't know if you're bought into my argument yet, but if you're buying into the whole Christ returned thing, they're kind of saying it right here. The threat of Armageddon hasn't ended, it's just begun. So here's the return of Christ starting Armageddon, right? [01:15:05] Speaker C: Yeah. On this piece, like, Superman looks fantastic. And then everybody else looks like, I don't know, Superman actually looks like Superman. You know what I'm saying? Like a cartoony character. And that's good. He's probably, you know, lifting a little bit from the. Which is one of those cartoons. Cartoons in the. What's his name? [01:15:26] Speaker A: Fleischer. [01:15:27] Speaker C: Fleischer, yeah. It's got a bit of a Fleischer feel to him. And, you know, he doesn't look like his proportions are correct. They look dynamic. But then you move down and all his other stuff just looks like overly engineered or. [01:15:40] Speaker A: Yeah. [01:15:41] Speaker B: You know. [01:15:42] Speaker C: All right. [01:15:42] Speaker A: Anyways, and then I think, Norman, that's okay. On the last page, like, looking up. [01:15:46] Speaker C: That's the only time so far we've seen good acting by these actors. The bottom panel of this page. [01:15:52] Speaker A: Yeah. [01:15:53] Speaker C: Norman looking up whoever posed for him. Good job on that one moment. [01:15:59] Speaker A: And that's the end of chapter one. I mean, that's it. That's all we said we were going to cover today. So that's the setup. I mean, I don't know. I think I said micro. If I had a criticism of the book. It does have a feel of getting the band back together kind of for an entire issue. And to your point, Travis, I don't know if you need an entire issue of that, but you're. You're also your critique that it may be time bound a little bit, because they definitely did that in a lot of their crossover stuff. Like Crisis obviously had the. Let's get the ban. Well, that was the whole thing. [01:16:31] Speaker C: I mean, there's rules back then, too, that I've been told about. I can't verify as a real person that was there, but it. You know, there were rules that said, hey, if you started a new book, if you're going to do a miniseries, you just spend a little bit of time saying who everybody is. Otherwise people won't Buy the book because you have to treat them as if they're brand new readers and not make the assumption that they know what's going on. [01:16:53] Speaker A: Yep. And I closed my book. But I did see in here, which I looked it up just to make sure. But there was an intent after the reception of this. I don't know if the intent started with the book, but there was an intent to do an ongoing series later where Alex Ross just painted the covers, but they had somebody else. And it was a good artist, too. That's why I'm mad that I closed the book because I was going to tell you who the artist was, but they did have a. A good artist tab to do the like ongoing. [01:17:27] Speaker C: There's no weight either. That's the other thing. Like, look, man, people make fun of inkers, but because of the lack of lines in the ink, we don't have any weight to any of these things. You know, we don't make fun of anchors. [01:17:38] Speaker A: We love inkers on this. Unless. Unless you were one of the rotating anchors on the end of the Booster Gold series. Oh, and you're as. [01:17:46] Speaker C: They always come back to Booster Gold Legion with you two. Jesus freaking Christ. [01:17:50] Speaker A: Because we just covered Booster gold for like 25 episodes. [01:17:54] Speaker C: All you ever covers, like 10 years of booster Gold. [01:17:57] Speaker A: You can blame Greg for that, but you're welcome. Yeah, it's. Oh, here it was. I'm back on the page. Gene Ha was going to do the interiors. [01:18:08] Speaker C: Travis, that's sounds. I don't know who that is. [01:18:12] Speaker B: King Ha. Amazing. [01:18:15] Speaker A: So if you don't know who that is, look it up later. [01:18:18] Speaker C: You should. You know what? I'll buy your book on the history of comics. Okay. Just give me the encyclopedias. [01:18:25] Speaker A: These are. These are not mine. These are somebody else's. [01:18:27] Speaker C: Like, what did it say? Someone say a great book? [01:18:31] Speaker A: I was Saxon, Keith, Dallas, love this book. [01:18:33] Speaker C: I mean, I was doing a panel once and they were asking me like, well, if you could do any IP you wanted, which one did you do? And I was like, whatever, one bit would pay me because it's just basically fanfic at that point for me, you know? And like, I'm not. I wouldn't be that strong of a fan for any of the big two. I mean, don't get me wrong, I would love the paycheck. Right? But, like, what? I'm not gonna be able to sit down and hit swing at these guys who have 10,000 issues behind them, you know? And the guys are writing them. Were fans growing up and read every book leading up to this. I don't have that history, you know, so, like me, I, I just want to do fun stuff. But Jesus, there's a lot of history there and I get overwhelmed. It's a lot. [01:19:21] Speaker A: And see, that's, but see, that's the difference to me. My background is I love learning about the history. Right. I was, I dug into it forever. And so a book like this speaks to me in a very different way than it speaks to you. Right. Got me to respect digging everything in here. [01:19:37] Speaker C: Yeah, you got me to respect Legion a little better. So there you go. Now, because of you, I wouldn't mind if I was going to do fanfic type writing, I would do Legion probably. [01:19:50] Speaker A: And they're relaunching Legion and they've pissed everybody off about that too. But I, except for me, I'm excited. [01:19:57] Speaker B: Dan's excited it's a new Legion. [01:19:59] Speaker A: Well, I'm excited because, you know, they're not going to try to, they're supposed to be paying homage to the past, but they're not going to try to like, pick it up. Okay. And so I, I, I think with a book like Legion that's had so many starts and stops, you can't just like pick it up. You, you've got to, and you've got to sort of, again, to your point, Travis, it has to be fanfic. I think it's got to be like, Mark Waid is writing the world's finest. Right. You can't just pick up from like an issue of Legion in the past and then magically start from there and expect anybody to read the book. [01:20:37] Speaker C: I mean, unless you're John Byrne who just did that, which is amazing. [01:20:43] Speaker A: Yeah, I love John Byrne. So we're bringing up the person that destroyed the legion in the 80s, of course. [01:20:50] Speaker C: But I mean, he literally just did what you said with the X Men. [01:20:55] Speaker A: Not wrong. [01:20:56] Speaker C: Yeah, he did. He just randomly went off on his own tangent. And which X Men? Have you not seen his weirdo graphic novels coming out based on his like 3 year long free X Men, where he just said, you know, if I was to still write the X Men, this is what would have happened? [01:21:14] Speaker A: Oh, no, I have not, because I have not picked up Marvel anything except [01:21:17] Speaker C: Gale's book, the one that I got mad about. [01:21:21] Speaker A: Yep. [01:21:23] Speaker C: Did she get that character fixed or is that still a problem for me? [01:21:26] Speaker A: I think I like Uncanny, so. [01:21:28] Speaker C: Yeah, well, there's a character I got mad about. [01:21:31] Speaker A: Yeah, but so no. And would I go out of my way to pick up anything John Byrne? Did. Absolutely not. Unless you tell me it's good and then I would go pick it up. [01:21:40] Speaker C: I'm going to read it first to find out. Like, I don't think. I think John Byrne is a talent. Look, let's. Let's be honest here. I think John Burn might have taught me how to write comic books legitimately. I got. I have no way to find out because he was a random dude in the AOL DC channel who was the admin of the DC channel and his name was John Byrne. And he would DM back and forth with me on how to better my skills and taught me what a script would look like for a comic book and explain panels to me and how they work. So that might be the same guy. I don't know. But the point is, is he's a damn decent writer and he's just. Sometimes he's. He's willing to just do whatever he wants and everybody else. And that can't be a problem. [01:22:23] Speaker A: A hard degree, hard agree. [01:22:25] Speaker C: And that can be a problem, hard agree. [01:22:26] Speaker A: But the thing is, sometimes everyone else. [01:22:28] Speaker C: But the thing is, is when he does it right, it's like, that was good, you know? And then when he does it wrong, you're like, you piece of. Why would you kill them? Why are there aliens? [01:22:39] Speaker A: Sounds like Travis Superman wasn't Superboy. [01:22:47] Speaker C: I got called out. Yeah, [01:22:52] Speaker A: well, I call you out on the podcast every. [01:22:53] Speaker C: I will. I will say. I will say there is a huge difference between me and John Burns other than the fact that he's successful, which is, I would say when I hand a book over, I don't give a what they do with it. I'm not gonna have a temper tantrum or cry about what they do with the book after I've, Man, I don't like. I sell a couch on ebay. They take the couch. I don't check on it a month later to see if they're using it right. [01:23:17] Speaker A: That's fair. You don't go over and I think, I mean, that's a skill set too. [01:23:20] Speaker C: Yeah. [01:23:22] Speaker A: You know, there are some. There are some folks famously good at that too. I know that. But. Yeah, I mean, I don't know. I like Kingdom Come. Travis is in between on it. Right. [01:23:32] Speaker C: I am really in between. Oh, look, look again. That era, I. I mean, you. You added some context to it. I was aware of the context of when it came out. The whole thing about it being a answer to image that makes better sense. But I don't. I don't like the execution in a lot of parts. Yeah, I think it. I think. John. I'm sorry. I think Mark Wade is a much better writer now. I. Actually, when you were talking earlier, I don't know if you heard. Caught me say, oh, he's doing really good on that. It's because I have been poking around of all the writers right now. I really enjoy him. I think he did a. Did he just do that Superman run about eight years ago or seven years ago, where, like, Superboy run? Where's a little boy now? Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. [01:24:17] Speaker A: In action. [01:24:17] Speaker C: Yeah. [01:24:18] Speaker A: Writing. He was writing action. [01:24:20] Speaker C: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I was reading that for a while. It was fantastic. [01:24:24] Speaker A: He's writing Justice League right now, too, and he. [01:24:26] Speaker C: I'm not going to read this thing ever. But. [01:24:28] Speaker A: Well, he. I think he did a cool thing with it, though. He just put all of them back on the satellite and just said, everybody's in the Justice League. [01:24:34] Speaker C: Wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait. But any of them robots? We don't know yet, do we? We don't know yet. They could be being replaced by robots, and we wouldn't even know until one of them is dating. Two of them are dating, then one of them fills out. Sorry, I was thinking 80s comics. Sorry, I'm stuck. [01:24:49] Speaker A: No, but. [01:24:49] Speaker B: Sounds like a Booster Gold episode. [01:24:51] Speaker A: Yeah. [01:24:51] Speaker C: Yeah. [01:24:53] Speaker A: I'm okay with that happening, Travis, though, because I do like the notion of. Instead of saying. Instead of like, with Justice League and saying, you know what? I'm going to. I'm going to create the definitive Justice League and say, there are these eight members. Right? Yeah, he just said it. Everybody's in the Justice League. [01:25:11] Speaker C: Yeah. [01:25:13] Speaker A: Which means, as a writer, he's never boxed into a corner. Right. He can just write whatever the he wants. [01:25:18] Speaker C: I'm just thinking about. Okay. You're tempting me to look at it just because I do really like. I just think. I think this is a product of its time. I think it's fine for its time period. It's in a time capsule. I'm gonna. The reason I chose it with you guys, because I want to finish it. Because I'm sick of bitching about it. Because I've never gotten past the first issue. I've reread that first issue, like, five times. I read it again today just for this podcast. I read it again a few months ago. I want to get through it, so this will force me to get through it, because I'll read things just so I don't get bowled over by Dan and Greg. Make fun of me. [01:25:53] Speaker B: I'm not making fun of You I, I, I, I, I like your take on it and honestly what you're saying is exactly what we why we do the podcast because it's like we take a look at the at the things that were done in the past and see how they hold up today or, or don't hold up and you're saying exactly what we bring you know why we bring things out like this and you're saying it's a product of itself. [01:26:18] Speaker A: Huh What Dan Got it. [01:26:20] Speaker C: Okay. [01:26:21] Speaker A: I got it. [01:26:22] Speaker C: I don't hate it that much even if it is the Bible the door to door Bible salesman version. [01:26:28] Speaker A: But yeah I mean that's the thing too Travis. Like I mean not everybody has to like the same thing. Yeah no I think I think the other thing too about it though is you know the one thing we can agree on is I well I also think Mark Wade has improved as a writer but I like this with his writing even though he's writing in the confines of trying to work with a crazy amazing art painter. Right Is the I mean because we all agree Alex Russell's painting is beautiful [01:26:57] Speaker C: probably top and I mean like there are a few guys at that level that I like that are around right now and a couple of them don't do comics at all anymore but have you know but like it's, it's like Alex Ross I like Lee Moyer a lot I like there's a couple other who was the other one I just was we're looking at who does really great illustrations I can't remember her name anyways you know but once you get into sequentials like it doesn't the medium isn't nice to that art style for sequentials you know and that isn't so much the artist as the what the medium calls for to tell a story in an now and I say that and then some is going to bring out something 10 years from like I listen to this podcast I don't want to ever want any other listeners that ever listen to and this guy Travis Webber thought he was something was talking about so I wanted to prove him wrong and then I did and then yeah that guy's the exception if they ever figured that out. I don't know how to do it. I don't think Alex got it here I don't think you got it in Terminator and I don't think anyone else I've seen who is an illustrator like this has been able to make that style of illustration that painting illustration work in sequentials. [01:28:11] Speaker A: Well we're going to have to wait until we get to the other issues, see what happens. [01:28:15] Speaker C: No, they don't get any better. [01:28:16] Speaker A: I'll have to see. [01:28:20] Speaker B: You'll have to see. [01:28:21] Speaker C: Travis, I started sinking in my chairs with podcasts. [01:28:25] Speaker A: We'll have to see when Mr. Mind shows up. But I. Mr. [01:28:28] Speaker B: Mime. [01:28:30] Speaker A: Mind. Mr. Mind. [01:28:31] Speaker B: Mr. [01:28:31] Speaker C: Mime. We were hoping it was Mr. Mime. Wait, don't we have a Mr. Mime? Oh, no, no, no. I renamed him. Yeah, you did. [01:28:37] Speaker A: Well, we're going to go. We will go through the rest of this book in the next few months. Travis will be back on next month and we'll go through the book again. We. The same issue? No. Oh, we're going to go to issue two. [01:28:50] Speaker B: Okay. [01:28:51] Speaker A: We are. We do want to wrap this thing up. Uh, we have a couple of things. I know Travis has a couple of things to plug and we have a couple of announcements too, for the next couple of episodes. So one, Travis, get started plugging. [01:29:07] Speaker C: Ew. Plug. Travis, plug. Stop. It's gross. Anyways. What a term. All right, all right. [01:29:20] Speaker A: And this is why we never get done with a podcast, folks. [01:29:23] Speaker C: All right, all right, all right. So let me see. So those of you who know Greg and I have a series together called Starlight. [01:29:32] Speaker A: What? [01:29:32] Speaker C: Yeah. [01:29:33] Speaker B: Oh, my. [01:29:33] Speaker C: And we just finally shifted the graphic novels digitals and we are in talks. Greg doesn't know this yet. He's gonna find it live on the podcast. We're in talks of getting a full large scale offset print data of the. The 200 page graphic novel edition. That might happen. So maybe, maybe, maybe we can sell more Starlights. So just. [01:29:56] Speaker A: Wow. Breaking news right here on Funny Book Forensics, where your expert, esteemed journalist gets the. Gets the scoops. Greg, see other people come on this podcast and actually tell me things, unlike my co host. Anyway, continue. [01:30:11] Speaker C: Trust your co host who's on the book. [01:30:14] Speaker A: Didn't even know. Bringing brand new things to the podcast. Thank you. [01:30:17] Speaker C: But that discussion happened right before I came on the podcast. Actually, I just had a chance to call Greg to tell him what's going on. All right, so then that's why it broke right here. [01:30:25] Speaker A: Because we're an important, esteemed media place for things to happen. [01:30:29] Speaker C: Yeah. Yeah. So the next thing is we. Oh, yeah. I'm in a book called Systemic 2 with some great hitters. And that is another cyberpunk book. But I'm trying something different that I've been working on for 10 years. So I used it as a test bed for a series I want to write someday. So there's that it's called the Forgotten. So that is on Kickstarter now as Systemic 2. And I'm with a great group of creators. Actually. Some real class indie people are on this book and I'm kind of super honored to even be involved. When I looked at the list of other creators, I was like, wow, I'm definitely standing in the the leagues here at the indies here. [01:31:16] Speaker A: So Systemic two. Yeah, yeah, I will go back that, I guess or something. [01:31:24] Speaker C: And then Nemesis, which, if you don't [01:31:29] Speaker A: know what is the title of that book? [01:31:31] Speaker C: The Return of Alex Reign. [01:31:34] Speaker A: That's it. [01:31:35] Speaker C: Yes. [01:31:36] Speaker A: Nothing about cyborg parts or falling from the sky or. [01:31:38] Speaker C: No, no. [01:31:40] Speaker A: Raining or. [01:31:41] Speaker C: No, it's not raining. Mid. Anyways. [01:31:44] Speaker A: No, it's raining parts of men. [01:31:46] Speaker C: Ew. Anyways, so that is a continuation of the first movie that happens between the first and second Nemesis movies. [01:31:57] Speaker A: Wait, what movies are you talking about? [01:31:59] Speaker C: Nemesis. [01:32:00] Speaker A: Nemesis is by Albert Pune and it was a movie done when. [01:32:05] Speaker C: At 92. [01:32:07] Speaker A: I see. [01:32:07] Speaker C: It's one of the, like, true cult cyberpunk films. Like if you were young in the 90s and you were playing cyberpunk or Shadow Run, you didn't think about, like, as much when it came to adjusting to, like, what is that movie that everyone loves? I like to. [01:32:29] Speaker A: Tank Girl. [01:32:30] Speaker C: No, no, the cyber Blade Runner. Right. So people are like, oh, Blade Runner, blah, blah, blah, movies. In 92. You were like, I'm gonna watch Nemesis because people have circuits flying out of their heads, you know, and sparks. There's lots of sparks. [01:32:46] Speaker B: And Nemesis. [01:32:47] Speaker C: So it was very, very cyberpunky. Bodyguards, lots of guns, lots of, like, gun fights that are over the top. In fact, it actually alert created one of the most famous gun sequences that has been copied in action films ever since. And believe it or not, the creator of John Wick was the stunt coordinator and is in some of the later Nemesis movies. So. [01:33:12] Speaker A: And you can watch the Nemesis movie for free on YouTube. [01:33:15] Speaker C: You can. And that's actually a legal version. If it's the one you found, that one is actually licensed, so you can watch it. [01:33:22] Speaker A: You linked it to me, so I did. It was licensed. [01:33:24] Speaker C: There you go. That was the licensed one. So, yeah, we. Brett, who did surrogates, which surprisingly was inspired by Nemesis and other cyberpunk books, that was that surrogates with Bruce Willis. So Brett's doing the art. He came up with the concept, I wrote it. And all the proceeds after that go back to the estate to help preserve Albert's legacy. So not a lot of profit on this book for us, but a good thing to do and a chance to work on a property that was pivotal in both mine and Brett's, like, foundation of loving for sci fi. I'm a huge Nemesis fan. I'm a. You know. And then Brett surprised me when I thought he was a Nemesis fan, and we didn't shut the hell up about it for, like, weeks. And then we got to be doing the book. [01:34:09] Speaker A: I remember. And we've been giving you the link on every announcement for this podcast for this for months because it's been delayed. Delayed a little bit. And that's. That's. And you, of course, people that listen to the podcast are aware of the ongoing joke of me messing up the title over and over again. But with that said, now I feel bad because Travis is so serious about it. But we were just trying to keep. We were trying. The goal was to keep the story going for you, Travis. It wasn't meant. [01:34:35] Speaker C: No, no. And I. I appreciated it a lot, actually. Every time I would listen to the podcast, I'd be like, God damn, that's so good. At least somebody remembers it happens because it has to do well for us. We really want to succeed because it is a big legacy. A lot of his fans are behind it, and we want to be successful because it means a lot to save. That goes into the next thing. So if we're ready for the next thing, I will say the next thing, which hasn't been really announced yet. [01:35:00] Speaker A: So breaking right here. [01:35:02] Speaker C: Breaking again. [01:35:03] Speaker A: Funny book again, you guys. [01:35:04] Speaker C: Well, actually, this is going to be funny movie forensics. I don't know. Anyways, that's not funny. [01:35:10] Speaker B: It's not funny. [01:35:12] Speaker A: Well, we may have. We may have Travis Bundy on, and that may involve watching a movie instead of reviewing a comic book. Quick, so what? [01:35:19] Speaker C: So, okay, so real quick, news flash. The. Our pun passed in the middle of making his last film, which was him trying to combine his nemesis world with his cyborg movie series series. And then maybe a little bit of Omega Doom or whatever his other film was. I just forgot the name of. And I feel dumb. So we are going to be crowdfunding to help finish up that movie once and for all. They're shooting some scenes now in the next few weeks, but it will need additional funds for, like, editing and processing and so forth like that. So we'll be doing a Kickstarter for that in the next few weeks, and it will be a Kickstarter to basically fund the final cyborg movie called Cyborg Overture, Badass Angels and Demons. And I got to help do the rewrites on that. And it is the craziest shit I've ever worked on. It is angels, demons, and robots battling over the fate of humanity. [01:36:22] Speaker A: And I understand if you somehow miss the Kickstarter for the comic we just referenced, you're going to be able to buy both the movie and the Kickstarter comic on the second Kickstarter. [01:36:34] Speaker C: Yeah. [01:36:34] Speaker A: Right. [01:36:34] Speaker C: Yep. [01:36:35] Speaker A: Okay. So, yeah, if you. If you're. If you're waiting, please don't. Because they want to. You know, they want Nemesis to be successful, and they want to get it out there. But if some reason you can't right now. Hang on. And Travis will get the movie Kickstarter going, and then you can back both there and keep supporting Albert's estate. [01:36:55] Speaker C: Yeah. [01:36:56] Speaker A: Moving forward, I can tell you I've been reading the. [01:37:00] Speaker B: The script that Travis has provided to me to take a peek at. [01:37:04] Speaker A: Wait, you get to read the script? [01:37:06] Speaker C: It is awesome. He's my writing partner. It is awesome. It's crazy. [01:37:13] Speaker A: Breaking news. Greg gets to read the script. [01:37:16] Speaker B: I mean, it's. [01:37:17] Speaker C: It's the. It is. I don't have time to read the script. [01:37:19] Speaker B: It's a privilege of being the writing partner. I. Although I didn't. I did not write on any of this for clarity. I. I just. I. I get to. [01:37:27] Speaker C: To. [01:37:28] Speaker B: To enjoy that. That perk of. Of. [01:37:30] Speaker A: You're. You're the editor. [01:37:33] Speaker B: No, no. [01:37:35] Speaker A: You're the Observer. [01:37:36] Speaker B: I'm the observer. I am the watcher. [01:37:39] Speaker A: You are the watchman. [01:37:40] Speaker B: No, not the Watchman. The watcher. [01:37:43] Speaker A: Oh, yeah. That's fair. Who watches the Watcher? The. [01:37:49] Speaker C: The peeper. [01:37:51] Speaker A: Interesting. [01:37:55] Speaker B: I don't know. [01:37:56] Speaker A: Nothing like a little what if humor? Travis, right in the middle of your. You're promoting stuff. You're gone. [01:38:04] Speaker B: Oh, no. [01:38:04] Speaker C: How about now? [01:38:05] Speaker A: You're back. You're back. [01:38:07] Speaker C: He's back, everybody. Travis is back. I unplugged my microphone on accident. [01:38:12] Speaker A: Well, so that's a lot of projects. Greg and I have a couple of announcements, too. [01:38:16] Speaker B: Unless it was one more from Travis. [01:38:18] Speaker A: One. [01:38:19] Speaker B: No. [01:38:19] Speaker C: Well, there's some more coming up. I. Next time we're on the show, I'll probably have more things. I literally took way too many. Not wait to me. Greg, we had to talk. I will slow down after this year. Okay. But I did take on a lot of writing jobs this year. Yes. [01:38:35] Speaker B: Travis, man, busy boy. [01:38:37] Speaker A: Well, we are. We are super excited because next week we have it scheduled anyway, so I can't guarantee it, but it's scheduled right now. [01:38:47] Speaker B: Scheduled. [01:38:48] Speaker A: We are Going to have a relatively new comic book writer on the show. Yes, and thanks to Travis, who made a connection for us. Travis. [01:39:00] Speaker C: Oh, is it all you? [01:39:01] Speaker A: Go ahead and. Yes, Allan's going to be on the show. Can you tell. Can you tell the folks a little bit about Allan? [01:39:07] Speaker C: Well, he's. He's short. Short. [01:39:14] Speaker A: Wow. Thanks there, Travis. [01:39:17] Speaker C: Well, shorter than me. I don't know if that's really short. I'm a tall guy. [01:39:22] Speaker B: He's just a little bit shorter than you. [01:39:28] Speaker C: He's like normal height. All right, all right, all right. I'll tell you about Alex. We're going to the comic book store on Saturday together and we're gonna pick up some dollar bin stuff. And then sometimes we go to the thrift store. There's like a. There's like a swap meet we go to. It costs a dollar each. And then Al and I kind of wander around and stare at all the stuff. And then we usually at that point go to like, a Raising canes or a Panda Express and get a little lunch. And then sometimes we, like, go see a movie after that, we'll hang out, we'll grab a couple other people, and then we'll talk about the movie afterwards. And that's Alan. Oh, you mean about his writing career? [01:40:06] Speaker A: Yeah. Thanks. [01:40:12] Speaker C: There you go. Alan's. Alan writes some twisted stuff. Alan writes for EC Which I keep trying to explain to him is a big deal. He is so humble and so calm and so precise as a human being that I'm like, dude, you're writing for an imprint that old men and boomers go crazy for. 50 years from now, no one's going to remember anything I wrote, but they're going to remember EC Comics existed, and they're going to associate you with that. And the stuff you're writing for, it is phenomenal. [01:40:48] Speaker A: It is like Catacomb of torment number 13. [01:40:51] Speaker C: Yeah, yeah. Is that the one that just dropped this week? He just sent me what just dropped. I'm going to see. [01:40:56] Speaker A: Yep, that is. That is the one that. That dropped this week. [01:40:59] Speaker B: He's such a night. He's such a nice guy. That's what they usually say about people. He's such a nice guy. Such a cool, quiet guy. [01:41:07] Speaker C: He likes bubble tea. If you ever meet Alan, are you going to go see him? And he's doing a signing. I would highly recommend bring him a bubble tea with tapioca balls in it and he will love you forever. So there you go. Especially if this one he hasn't had before. [01:41:26] Speaker A: Did I meet him in A one piece restaurant. [01:41:28] Speaker C: Yeah, we all hung out in a one piece restaurant. [01:41:30] Speaker B: Yes. [01:41:30] Speaker C: Yeah, it's like the best. [01:41:32] Speaker B: The best way to meet somebody. [01:41:34] Speaker A: Yeah. So, yeah, we're really excited to have Alan on it. When I met Alan, I got to regale him with all the things I like in the 1980s DC universe that he hadn't read and was like, oh, I should read that. [01:41:49] Speaker C: What day is he coming on? [01:41:52] Speaker A: We're having him next Tuesday, so when we record. [01:41:55] Speaker B: Cool, cool. [01:41:56] Speaker A: Hey, everyone. We record on Tuesday, but we release on Sunday. [01:42:00] Speaker C: I. The reason I'm asking is I know that him and I will be in San Diego together this year, so. Side note, we'll be in San Diego this year. [01:42:05] Speaker A: Yes. We booked it around. Yes. So Travis, actually, that will be on before you're in San Diego. So Travis will be at the big one. [01:42:13] Speaker B: The one year I don't go. [01:42:16] Speaker C: I see that every year. [01:42:17] Speaker A: I've never got to go. So can I go next year? [01:42:20] Speaker C: This is. [01:42:20] Speaker B: This is the. [01:42:21] Speaker C: I've said this. [01:42:22] Speaker B: This has been like six years now of me not going. [01:42:26] Speaker C: And I. I begged you. I've offered to buy. [01:42:28] Speaker B: I know. [01:42:28] Speaker C: In the past. [01:42:29] Speaker B: I know. Even Anne went, like, in the last couple years. [01:42:32] Speaker C: And then I swear to God, I swear to God, I saw her. I bet you did, probably. And I was like, no, no. Remember I called you. I was like, is Ann here? [01:42:40] Speaker B: And I was like, yeah, she's there, [01:42:42] Speaker C: but finding her again, that ain't going to happen. [01:42:44] Speaker A: Well, we have one more announcement before we go because keep rubbing in that everybody gets to go to San Diego except Dan's never been. Okay, that's fine. [01:42:52] Speaker C: Just go. [01:42:54] Speaker A: Yeah. The other piece that I will share with you that we mentioned at the top of the podcast when we were making the comparison that the co. Creator of Carnage and Spider man artist Randy Emberlin, is going to be on the podcast two weeks from now. [01:43:07] Speaker C: Two weeks. [01:43:09] Speaker A: And so. And the reason we're doing all these podcasts is because Alan will technically be on the 200th episode. But we brought in these three folks, Travis, Alan, and Randy, to celebrate 200 episodes. [01:43:20] Speaker B: 200 episodes, everybody. Oh, my. [01:43:24] Speaker C: Am I 199? [01:43:25] Speaker A: You are 199. [01:43:26] Speaker C: It's like coming in second place. You did all the right things, but you don't know why you failed. [01:43:30] Speaker A: I think you're 199. I have to go. Do some math. [01:43:32] Speaker B: Give me 198. I don't know, Travis. I mean, damn, you're. You're close. You are. [01:43:37] Speaker A: You are 199. [01:43:39] Speaker C: Do I need a challenge coin? What's up? What's up? [01:43:41] Speaker B: Hey, you might be 198 or 199, but you're number one in my heart. [01:43:45] Speaker A: Travis, I will buy you another steak next time in Vegas. [01:43:48] Speaker C: Oh, yeah, I'm in. [01:43:49] Speaker A: Okay. Or you can buy me a steak, since it'll be my birthday next time. [01:43:54] Speaker B: How about meatloaf? [01:43:56] Speaker C: You know, there's this place I go to. Do you know the Dollar Store has steaks now? I'm just saying. All right. [01:44:02] Speaker B: Oh, my gosh. [01:44:03] Speaker A: Well, anyway, we. We have been on for an hour and 44 minutes. [01:44:07] Speaker C: Yeah, Greg has things to do. [01:44:08] Speaker A: We should wrap this one up. Yes, Greg has things to do. I have things to do. You have things to do. We all have things to do. But thank you for joining us on this episode of Funny Book Forensics. I hope you enjoyed the critique and review of Kingdom Come. And next time Travis is back, we're going to get Travis to read the second issue of one of my favorite comics. [01:44:30] Speaker C: What's that? [01:44:32] Speaker A: Kingdom Come. [01:44:33] Speaker C: Oh. [01:44:33] Speaker A: Bye, everyone. Circle. Bye. [01:44:36] Speaker C: Bye. It.