Episode Transcript
[00:00:02] Speaker A: Okay.
All right.
[00:00:09] Speaker B: I'm good at hitting peaks, though.
That's what level eight are for.
[00:00:13] Speaker A: Yeah, just do a.
Just say whatever you want to say to start. You're interviewing me.
[00:00:19] Speaker B: I'm interviewing you. How did this happen? Is this an official funny book forensics interview? I think it is. It's funny book forensics adjacent. That's how we're starting.
[00:00:28] Speaker A: I was thinking it was to be, like, supplementary.
[00:00:31] Speaker B: Well, it's a funny. Look. Okay, I guess this is our first funny book forensic supplement. I mean, I did a short with Greg once when I gave him a really cool, like, a gift for Christmas that he was really excited.
[00:00:44] Speaker A: Forensics.
[00:00:44] Speaker B: No, his gift was. No, his gift. His gift was an original Fred Hembek for Christmas. Did you not see our short?
Yeah. And by the way, like any funny book forensics interview, this is. This is how we start things. So if you're not listening to our podcast here, you know what? Since we're doing this, Travis, we're going to go ahead and plug the podcast right now because you can find us on Project Dash, nerd.com, of all political science. Well, no, it's not political science anymore. They've actually made a major shift.
They're now into serious analysis of 1980s television commercials. So if you want a website with all sorts of podcasts and media about serious analysis of 1980s television commercials and after school specials.
[00:01:25] Speaker A: Oh, there's that one where they have the punk kid who's played by Sam what's his name, and he has a mohawk, but he's not really a punk because punks are actually good people. Bullies are bullies. Punks are not.
[00:01:35] Speaker B: Yeah, that's true. And there's also that one with Ben Affleck where he destroys the locker room after taking steroids.
[00:01:41] Speaker A: I don't remember that one.
[00:01:42] Speaker B: Yeah, I mean, there's some.
[00:01:43] Speaker A: I mean, the thing I can remember is a very special episode of Blossom.
[00:01:46] Speaker B: There's. Well, I think every episode of Blossom was a very special episode of Blossoms.
[00:01:51] Speaker A: One particular one called very special episode of Blossom.
[00:01:54] Speaker B: And if you're listening to this right here, Greg isn't here right now. This is actually Travis Manchin, co author on Starlight. Now, Travis gets mentioned on the podcast often. You might hear us mention Travis when I talk about Travis, never listening to us, but apparently he did. And then he wanted me to talk to him for some reason. And I really don't understand why.
[00:02:14] Speaker A: Well, I'll tell you why. You're in Vegas and I listen to your podcast, and I like it. I like you, Dan. And I have this thing I've put in front of you.
[00:02:28] Speaker B: Yes, well, and for those of you on May 8, that would be yesterday from when we're recording this. But since you don't really know when we're recording this, I probably shouldn't tell you when we're recording this, but yeah, we just reviewed Starlight hash six, and if you haven't listened to that May 8 podcast yet, I highly recommend that you go ahead and actually read the first six issues which you can get on. I'm going to mess up the website, starlightkickstarter.com, but you can also get it at overcast.
[00:02:58] Speaker A: Oh, overcastcomics.com.
[00:03:00] Speaker B: So if you want to catch up before.
So if you should back number seven.
[00:03:04] Speaker A: You can get them on Amazon.
[00:03:07] Speaker B: Apparently you can also get them on Amazon. I don't know anything about Amazon, so clearly I wouldn't know anything about that.
[00:03:14] Speaker A: There's a reason they're on Amazon, by the way. We just had to put them on Amazon, but can't say the reason.
[00:03:19] Speaker B: Okay, well, apparently they're on Amazon and the overcast comics website, and they are, of course, available on Kickstarter. And you'll get, if you order the right package, you can get all the packages. But I highly recommend reading up to this point because we, I mean, if you haven't read to now, some of what we talk about today is not going to make any sense. And that's okay, because if you listen to Greg and I, most of what we say doesn't make sense anyway. So, you know, it's par for the course. But we always appreciate you reading along. And so, and now Travis is flipping through all of his books on his desk and Travis is showing me, I heard of this team power pack.
Now, I feel like I've heard about this team before, the power pack. Now, I know the power pack has no relationship to some book called Starlight whatsoever, because in this case, there are four young superheroes. And of course, in starlight, there are only two young superheroes.
[00:04:21] Speaker A: They're teenagers in starlight.
[00:04:22] Speaker B: Yes. Well, not when they start, you know.
[00:04:27] Speaker A: No one's read spoilers. No.
[00:04:28] Speaker B: Well, when. No, when they start in starlight. I mean, these were, I guess you do say they were teen superheroes, but I thought part of the premise now.
[00:04:40] Speaker A: Is kids superheroes are a bad idea.
[00:04:42] Speaker B: Yeah, well, in power, power pack, when they grew up and moved to, like, the islands in Washington.
[00:04:48] Speaker A: Oh, well, they were on Bainbridge, not Bremerton.
[00:04:51] Speaker B: Yeah. Well, I mean, you know, if you listen to our podcast on a regular basis. And presumably, since you're listening to this episode, probably you don't. But, I mean, I have noted that in the past. If you buy one of Greg's books. Have you heard absolute zeros, camp Launchpad? If you buy a hardcover, Greg will personally send you an MXPX CD with every single copy. And since Greg's not here to deny that, I can tie back to about seven or eight podcasts ago when I told you that was going to happen. Because we believe in moving to Bremerton, you see?
[00:05:23] Speaker A: Yeah, well, you know, it's funny because I had that huge house in Bremerton on the water, and, you know, starlight starts out in Bremerton, power pack ends up in Bainbridge, and dead boy detectives is now in Port Townsend. What is happening?
[00:05:37] Speaker B: Trace?
[00:05:38] Speaker A: To get my breakfast.
[00:05:39] Speaker B: Yeah, and I mean. And you know, those vampires were in calama. I mean, forks. No, they're in Kalama.
[00:05:45] Speaker A: They're in Kalama. I went to that hotel.
[00:05:48] Speaker B: They were at Klama high school. Did you not know that?
[00:05:49] Speaker A: No, I'm so, uh. I. You know, I. That's the other side of the Olympics.
Um.
[00:05:57] Speaker B: Klama or Forks?
[00:05:58] Speaker A: Forks.
[00:05:58] Speaker B: Well, yeah, but Klama is not. That's just down the highway.
[00:06:00] Speaker A: I stayed at this little, uh, hotel in forks one time that had the twilight room that was the biggest. I should not talk crap about. Uh, that was not a fun idea to stay in forks. Well, no, Forks is fine. It's on the way to go hiking up there. Hurricane Ridge and stuff out there.
Actually, I think forks has one of the Carnegie libraries. So lost small towns. I don't know if you know this or. Carnegie started all these libraries. A lot of libraries in small towns are Carnegie libraries, because he believed in that education was the best way to defend against.
[00:06:38] Speaker B: Now, of course, you mean Dale Carnegie, right? Who taught all. Everybody how to be a great speaker and stuff, right?
Oh, no, you don't mean Dale Carnegie.
Oh, okay.
You mean the Carnegie with money?
[00:06:54] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:06:54] Speaker B: Okay. Well, I bet Dale Carnegie got a money, a lot of money, after he taught everybody to do public speaking.
[00:07:00] Speaker A: I don't even know what public speaking is.
[00:07:02] Speaker B: Well, that's true. I mean, I kind of got a degree in it or something, but based on this podcast, you never know that. So, I mean, maybe we. I guess maybe should get to the topic at hand. But this is a supplemental podcast to our. To our episode that came out on May 8 on Starlight hash six. Yeah. And Travis has a present for me right in front of me.
[00:07:24] Speaker A: Yep. You can go ahead and tell him what it is.
[00:07:26] Speaker B: Well, you see, as an esteemed member of the comic book media, I have finally not threw Greg because Greg would never, ever give me anything in advance. But I have an advanced script for starlight number seven. And finally, all my contacts as a comic book media expert have come.
I guess everything's come due. I've hit. I'm in Vegas. I've hit the jackpot.
[00:07:51] Speaker A: You've hit the jackpot here in Vegas.
That's not just a script that has all of the current art for the issue assigned to the page.
[00:08:02] Speaker B: Oh, yes. Because on the first page, it leaves off right where we were left in starlight at number six.
[00:08:07] Speaker A: Yeah, it does.
[00:08:08] Speaker B: Oh, wow.
[00:08:10] Speaker A: Because it's just gonna keep going.
[00:08:11] Speaker B: Now, should we have done this as a video podcast? Because they can't see me grinning from ear to ear right now. Right. They can't see the absolute joy I have flipping into the first page.
[00:08:20] Speaker A: No. But I will say this. There's one thing about this script that you're gonna have to make a decision on air about when we get to the end.
[00:08:30] Speaker B: Oh, wow. How long is this podcast going to be? I have to read everything.
[00:08:33] Speaker A: No, you're gonna read the whole thing while you're on the podcast. It takes you long. So we'll stop it here in a little bit. But when you get to the last page, when you get done, I don't wanna say any words at all. I'll start hitting. I'll hit record again.
[00:08:45] Speaker B: Okay.
[00:08:46] Speaker A: When you get to the last page, because you're gonna realize that's not the last page and you don't know the ending.
[00:08:52] Speaker B: Okay.
[00:08:52] Speaker A: And on the air, I want to know what your decision is. Do you wanna see the last page? Because I have it in my office hidden from you.
[00:08:57] Speaker B: Oh, boy. Okay, so what I do want to say to everybody now. So if you listen to the last podcast, we left off with learning. We. So basically, the last issue, issue six, we learned pretty much about everybody who's left.
[00:09:13] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:09:14] Speaker B: Except Mama cat.
[00:09:15] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:09:16] Speaker B: We learned about their life. Yeah. So we learned about earn cats life. We learned about Roger's life some more, even though we knew a little bit about him.
[00:09:24] Speaker A: Doesn't she start going by Aaron at this point?
[00:09:26] Speaker B: Aaron. Sorry.
[00:09:27] Speaker A: I said, well, earns her name, but. Earns her name, but Sarah can't pronounce it right. So she starts calling her Erin.
[00:09:31] Speaker B: I think it's toward the end.
[00:09:32] Speaker A: I think it's towards the end.
[00:09:33] Speaker B: I went through this with Greg on the other podcast. Like, how do I say this name? I want to make sure I get.
[00:09:37] Speaker A: Aaron, but because Sarah can't say it, she just says, can I just call you Aaron?
[00:09:42] Speaker B: Yeah. And then. Well, and that's the in, in Sarah. And if that's the. And if you listen to the last podcast, I don't want to rehash last podcast, but that's where I went into my little diatribe about these two kids haven't had a chance to sit down and actually talk to each other because the spates cats lives, I mean, it's very traumatic, and they're always, like, in danger, and their life's always being threatened, and they're living, their whole culture is based on that. Now, I don't know that that actually parallels to any certain situation going on in the world right now, where there's a whole society that is constantly under threat and is trying to do anything they possibly can to, like, cope with those threats. Maybe Travis was inspired by something. I'm not gonna say you were, but as the reader, I can put those things together. And Sarah and, and Aaron finally get a chance to sit down and just be kids for a minute and talk to each other. And it was such a great moment in the last book. And that's where we really then jump off, and that's where they decide to move forward. And we leave the last book with them coming, trying to come up with a strategy, figure out how to get out of this situation where all these spider wizards are going to take them out, basically. And basically their decision was, well, we leave, but when you get to the end of the comic, it looks like they're coming back and forth, and I don't know what's gonna happen next. All I see is Sarah standing on a ship looking pretty irritated.
[00:11:16] Speaker A: Yeah, she does that. She does that.
[00:11:18] Speaker B: Yeah, she's really good at looking irritated. I'm also impressed with the amount of things she can pull out of her pants.
[00:11:24] Speaker A: Well, I don't know if you've ever worn UFO's, but they have these giant pants pockets on the sides. They're like cargo pants, but they're made out of parachute material, so they're pretty much perfect for a superhero.
[00:11:35] Speaker B: Well, it was pretty cool because, like, you could. Yeah. And they didn't have to wear pouches like they did in the nineties, like in every superhero. So you could actually, I just like.
[00:11:44] Speaker A: About Jean Grey and that first issue of X Men. Jim Lee.
[00:11:48] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:11:48] Speaker A: Outfits banging on her. Except she has this huge cargo pocket.
[00:11:52] Speaker B: Yep.
And you're like, well, they ended up everywhere. I mean, everybody had patches. Yeah, I think Greg said it last episode. Pouches and no feet.
[00:12:01] Speaker A: Patches and no feet. Yeah, that's pretty. That was pretty common.
[00:12:04] Speaker B: So. But, yeah, I mean, that's where we really left the last episodes or the last episode of the podcast, but also the last issue of this book.
[00:12:12] Speaker A: You know, I was going to bring something up I heard on your podcast before.
I should point something out. There's some really traumatic stuff that happens in six. And everyone from Seattle that knows my history up there goes, oh, it's related to this one event.
And I'm gonna be really frank.
I've been through three events like that in my life. Just one of them made mass media attention, involved a lot of people. But I was in a.
So I'll just be really, really frank.
My first girlfriend in high school was actually murdered.
[00:12:50] Speaker B: Wow.
[00:12:51] Speaker A: While I was in high school, and it was a stupid situation.
Accidental shooting. Well, that was my first kiss. And the second event was I was in Walla Walla Djing with a friend in my twenties, and this guy lost his in wall wall. We don't party in houses in town. He'd go out to, like, the power line roads.
[00:13:15] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:13:16] Speaker A: And there's houses out there that are just miles from any other house. A whole bunch of people go there after the bar to one of the houses. There'd be all these people from the bar. We'd have dj's playing and stuff, and that be like a huge house party out in the middle of nowhere. And this guy lost his shit and started shooting and never made the news, but he ended up shooting someone outside. And in stalking everyone, we all had to hide from him for, like, almost a full fucking hour while this guy was outside screaming the f bombs like crazy. He was going to kill all of us.
[00:13:48] Speaker B: And the f bombs in the comic.
[00:13:50] Speaker A: Yes.
[00:13:50] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:13:51] Speaker A: And so over his girlfriend. And so I hid in this room with four people I'd never met before with my hand stuck in a pile of vomit, trying to stay below the windows. So if he looked in the windows because he was stalking the house, he wouldn't see anyone in the room. And we ought to be super quiet. We had to do this for an hour until the cops got there and got him to. They ended up taking him away. That didn't make the news or anything. I always thought that was weird. But in small towns, if something happens that far off the distance, I know he shot some, but I don't think the person died. And we just got out of there like, when the cops showed up, once they detained him and they were trying to get control, me and the other dj literally acted like we didn't know what's going on, got the. Just didn't act left as if we just had a right to. It's kind of a funny thing. Like, the cop didn't stop us asking questions. We loaded gear like we were just loading out professional guys on the side. But that. That left a really horrifying moment on me. And when I would try to tell people about that for years, unless they were in wall. Wall and they were involved in the event, people act like I was making it up. And so that event is closer to the event that I write about in the story. But there was another event in Seattle, of course, that made international news that I was also involved, but I wasn't actually there for that event. I was associated with the event.
So I think when you write about if you had that kind of trauma already in you.
[00:15:17] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:15:17] Speaker A: Because you've survived it and you're writing about an event that's similar. I don't know if I'll ever be able to write a story that has a shooting in it and not have someone say, oh, it's because of this thing that happened to Travis.
[00:15:32] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:15:32] Speaker A: You know, or have someone else who's experiencing go, oh, he's been through that before. You write the experiences you have. And so I never had the experience that Sarah's going through, but that feeling of helplessness, of not being there, that trauma, that's real for me.
[00:15:50] Speaker B: Yeah. And let's dial it back a second. On it. So Travis was referring to, if you. If you listen, last episode. But I do. Some folks may listen to this for the first time. Right. So in recounting the story, Sarah is friends with somebody who's being stalked by her boyfriend. And Sarah has led. All my analysis was, and I think Travis said it was spot on. Sarah was constantly put in low power situations. Right. So getting the powers with a low power situation because she's being basically coerced into going out and fighting crime as a kid with this powerful suit and then her well meaning brother. Right. Is the power of the team. Right. No pun intended, and related power pack, but kind of leading them through and encouraging them to do things. We discover in the last issue that she either accidentally or on purpose murders someone with her powers, and that wasn't disclosed to anybody but her psychiatrist. I think Chris probably knew, but we don't even know that Chris knew. We think Chris probably knew, but we don't know that for sure.
We discover that Chris is gay, and he's having trouble with his fighting in his own power structure, so he doesn't realize what he's doing to his sister by being overly protective. Right. And now she gets into this situation, new town, new start is loving her life. But then another man with a gun murders her best friend, who she wasn't there for. Who she was not there for.
[00:17:18] Speaker A: Actually, yeah, I try to. We don't have a lot of pages, but she was actively kind of avoiding her best friend.
[00:17:25] Speaker B: Yeah, because of the situation. And she is reliving her trauma at the same time, but now feels guilty. And what a terrible situation to be in, right, where you feel guilty because you don't want to face your own trauma, and then your friend is murdered by somebody, another man taking a power position. And, of course, in the last issue, I mentioned Roger, who, again, is always trying to assert his dominance in the situation.
[00:17:51] Speaker A: Right.
[00:17:52] Speaker B: And over her and even interrupting her story. Yeah, he does. To talk about how horrible his story is when he has this happy married life. Oh, it's so terrible. I have to have this happy married life with somebody I was a bigot against in the past. Like, dude, this is not the place. This is not the place. Like, your trauma, your white boy trauma doesn't match up with her trauma. As a latina female living a life, trying to deal with the overbearing brother, initially, these crazy powers that came at her. She was trying to be a kid.
[00:18:27] Speaker A: You brought another point, which is, you know, Sarah's based on a friend of mine, and I have other raver kids. She doesn't know anything about being Latino.
[00:18:36] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:18:36] Speaker A: She never grew up in that environment. She doesn't have that culture in her. She doesn't speak Spanish. You know what I'm saying? Her mom does.
[00:18:42] Speaker B: You mean, like, the latina culture wasn't live and well on Bainbridge island, right? Yeah.
[00:18:47] Speaker A: So she wasn't recent. It's just like, you know, my whole life, they told me I was, you know, I don't know a damn bit of German. I don't know anything about being German.
[00:18:54] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:18:55] Speaker A: Why does that make a difference? You know? And, you know, a good friend of mine pointed that out that her life was like that. And that's where I got the idea for Sarah having that was. People put that on you. Other people see that in you, but you don't have it. You know, she lives with that every day. You know, I think is issue six, where Roger literally calls her a Mexican.
[00:19:16] Speaker B: I don't remember?
Oops. That may be in the future.
[00:19:22] Speaker A: What's that got to do with anything?
[00:19:23] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:19:24] Speaker A: Cause she doesn't. That's on him. That's his.
[00:19:27] Speaker B: And that's also. It's interesting. I mean, Roger in himself is a whole. I mean, we could spend another hour on Roger, I think, and maybe even more after seven, but. Yeah, I mean, but that's what Travis is referring to, the traumatic experience. And honestly, too, you know, if you know how our podcast works, I take. I praise things, but I also take issues with things. And I took issue with some of the language used in the last issue.
[00:19:51] Speaker A: Yeah. I wanted to make sure it was real.
[00:19:53] Speaker B: Yeah. And that's one. You're framing it, too. And I'm allowed to take issue with it. Right.
[00:19:57] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:19:58] Speaker B: Because of my background and my life. Right.
[00:20:00] Speaker A: I think anyone should take issue with how that person acts, but I did that because I wanted. You know, here's the thing. When you kill a character in a book and if you don't set it up correctly, people won't believe the killing and they'll get taken out of the book.
[00:20:17] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:20:18] Speaker A: There has to be a believable, hate mongering person to have what happens in that issue, in issue six happen. And for you to be okay and feel justified with how it goes down in the end.
[00:20:32] Speaker B: What I think, too, when you build that. Right. One of the things we. We were talking about this earlier tonight, and we're talking about it now. Right. I told Travis, one of the things I appreciated about this part of the story is a lot of the things I referenced in talking about power structures right here a couple minutes ago are things that happened in previous issues.
[00:20:49] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:20:49] Speaker B: So when I was hit with this, right. And I'm hit with the discussion with the psychiatrist, and I'm hit with this traumatic story, it doesn't. It comes out of left field a little bit, but it doesn't from the power structure perspective, because you have built the character so well through the issues that I know something's wrong with Sarah because she's has to take ecstasy to use her powers. Right. Like, that's not normal. Right. Like most people should, you know, I mean, I. Okay, fine. We can all go do ayahuasca in South America and untap some sort of inner part of ourselves.
[00:21:21] Speaker A: Stop making fun of me.
[00:21:22] Speaker B: But it's not. And I'm not making fun of you here, but my point is, it's not normal. Right. To have to use a substance to untap something that is an integral part of yourself. And we learned that the starcore is in Sarah. Right. This is part of Sarah, right. So you know Sarah, and that's what she's trying to cope with as a character. I don't know if she's going to get there because I don't. I think so, though, because I get the last panel in six where I see the power coming and I'm excited and I'm ready to get to issue seven. But I want to tie back the other point. The trauma doesn't come out. Chris's story just doesn't come out of it. At work, we figure out by the end of Chris's story why he feels the need to protect his sister, why he feels like he needs to control the last thing you. Because as a young gay man who's not out of the closet, he has no control over that. So he's going to try to control everything else around him. And I'm not saying I didn't have that personal experience in life at all. So it was really easy for me to see.
I shouldn't say really easy, but I had to tap into my history and what I saw. Right. Like in, you know, you look at those different things now and then, you know, we're, we're learning all about earn Slash Aaron and, you know, seeing that what she had to control and how she had to tamper down her own expertise and let her brother basically run himself into suicide to defend her. And we get to see that, too. And that's the one you bring out of nowhere. And I think that's okay because we built up the other characters so well and we're learning about the cat pirates for the first time in their culture.
[00:22:55] Speaker A: Well, hopefully you pick up by the end of six that her brother did what he thinks he's supposed to do.
[00:23:02] Speaker B: Yes, he does, in his role. And I said that on the last podcast right there, because their culture is always experiencing constant trauma. Their planet is destroyed. They're trying to just put together, they're trying to carve out one small space in the universe where they can live as a people in peace. And right now it's these spaceships, but they're constantly under threat and they constantly have to do things that other people might think are questionable to keep their own existence. And like I said, has nothing to do with world events. Yeah, nothing. Nothing at all. And if you can read between the lines, I hope you're not watching Fox News.
That's all.
[00:23:45] Speaker A: Are you ready for this?
[00:23:46] Speaker B: I'm ready for this.
[00:23:47] Speaker A: All right, I'm gonna hit I'm gonna hit stop, and then we'll see how you feel after you get done. When you come back, you'll have to make a decision.
[00:23:56] Speaker B: All right?
Okay.
[00:24:04] Speaker A: Now, here's the thing. Underneath that is the actual last page, which I scribbled out of there so you couldn't see it. Yeah, you've read it.
You know those last words.
Do you want me to pull up the last page to show you?
[00:24:25] Speaker B: You know, Travis, they do that test on the kids with the marshmallows, right, where they say, the kids that don't eat the marshmallows, right.
Are the kids that are successful in life.
[00:24:43] Speaker A: So I won't pull this page up.
[00:24:45] Speaker B: You're not gonna pull the page out right now, but I was never that successful in life.
[00:24:54] Speaker A: So you ready?
[00:24:55] Speaker B: We're gonna look at this page.
[00:24:57] Speaker A: All right. Make sure I get a good angle on you. I want to see your expression. I don't want you to page, though.
[00:25:06] Speaker B: Yep.
Yep. I'm just thinking. Gonna go, yep. Yep. Mm hmm. Yep.
That's where I was at. That's where I was at.
[00:25:18] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:25:20] Speaker B: But not what I was expecting when I started.
I get vodka.
My reward is vodka.
My reward is vodka. You want me to shoot this now?
[00:25:37] Speaker A: Yes, on your podcast. It's also recording right now.
[00:25:41] Speaker B: All right. We are shooting vodka. Travis should know that alcohol does get consumed on the podcast. We did a whole episode where I consumed alcohol every time there was kirby crackle in a legion book.
Cheers, sir.
[00:25:58] Speaker A: I'm gonna stop recording with the film. I'm gonna post that later on the socials.
So what do you think? Without giving too many spoilers?
[00:26:08] Speaker B: Without giving too. I'm not gonna give any spoilers.
So, I mean, besides the one that we know, Sarah's flying on top of the ship when she starts the book. So the simple answer is this.
If we're doing the meta, let's start with the meta analysis we were doing last podcast, right?
You. You keep this going. So if you're still wanting to see. If you're still wanting to read about Sarah dealing with these power structures, structures that have been placed around her, you got it. You're gonna get that. That's gonna continue, and you're going to be a very happy person reading this book.
So, step one, Travis and Greg were able to keep the story narrative going.
And as you might shock you, Brett's. At least I didn't get to see all of Brett's art. I got to see. But Brett's art is obviously amazing, and I think, too, if you look at it from the perspective of.
I know, like, from the past discussions. Right. Like, part of your struggle with getting to the end of this book was getting to the end. Right. Is that a fair statement?
[00:27:20] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:27:21] Speaker B: And Greg, that's one of the things, having a co author. Right. And having Greg work with you helped you get to the end and make sure the right amount of content was there to get to the end.
[00:27:30] Speaker A: Oh, yeah. This was a completely different book.
[00:27:32] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:27:33] Speaker A: Originally.
[00:27:34] Speaker B: And I think. I think one of the neat things about this book, can I tell them they get an end that doesn't spoil it, right?
[00:27:41] Speaker A: No, you can tell me. It ends. The book ends.
[00:27:43] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:27:44] Speaker A: Just a note. Tom Orzinczowski was broken hearted when he realized it actually comes to an end because he wants.
[00:28:16] Speaker B: But, yeah, I mean, when you get in, when you. But it's nice to have a definitive end of something. Right. Like so, so often I don't get that. But where something can jump off. I think the other big thing is when you read this, you are going to be shocked in places. Things are going to happen in this book that you don't expect.
But it all makes sense.
And that's one of the fun things of a good comic. Right? Like, I need a comic with a clear storyline. I need things that are consistent, and Sarah's character is consistent from issue one to issue seven, discussed in length on our last podcast. But the. I shouldn't say our last podcast. Don't know when you'll exactly listen to this, but on that one that was released on May 8, mentioned Sarah's character is consistent throughout. And that consistency stays here.
There is, one of the great things is with your writing, Travis, that you can shock us while at the same time keeping your character consistency.
And, you know, I'm reviewing another book on the podcast right now. Won't name it here because I don't want to sully the good nature of your book by even invoking the title of that other book because I've already done that on the other podcast. But that book just uses a bunch of shock and awe tactics to try to get the reader shocked about what's happening to the characters and just crap. Right. Like there's killing people in the book for no reason. I'm not saying whether or not anybody dies in this book. I want to be clear, because there may be no death in this book.
There may be a lot of death in this book because we're not going to do spoilers here, but there obviously has been death previously in the book. Right. And when that happens, right, it comes as a shock, but it's not coming for no reason. Reason. And you follow up on it, and that's the mark of good comic book writing and good visual narrative storytelling or a good movie script or whatever, right. Versus something where you're just trying to jab at the reader and shock them. So what I can share with folks based on this book is every time there is a shock in the 7th issue, it is something that makes sense.
Yeah. And sorry for my ring going off in the background, but, you know, if we didn't have a noise going off in the background, something that wouldn't be your podcast. It would not be our podcast. So with, you know, with that said, like, you gotta back this Kickstarter. You need to get the rest.
I'm just telling you, like, I. Now I've got to read the script. I can't wait for the big book, and then I'll read it again two or three different times.
And I will also say, I mentioned in issue five, I came to tears. I was close to sitting here crying on Travis's chair on one page.
[00:31:01] Speaker A: You were pretty watered up there for a second.
[00:31:03] Speaker B: I was pretty watered up. I can't tell you what got me watered up, but I was pretty watered up.
And then, of course, I've got to stop talking because I want to tell Travis something about the script.
[00:31:15] Speaker A: Do you need to pause it?
[00:31:16] Speaker B: But, no, we can stop it. I mean, let's finish up the podcast.
[00:31:19] Speaker A: But I want to finish the clock. We'll do a couple more minutes. It doesn't need a full, full length podcast.
[00:31:22] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:31:23] Speaker A: Here's the big thing I'd ask you.
Was that the ending you were expecting? No, thank God.
[00:31:29] Speaker B: It was absolutely not the ending I was expecting.
[00:31:32] Speaker A: That was the hardest part. You know, it had a normal ending.
[00:31:35] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:31:37] Speaker A: So I was gonna tell you guys what the normal ending, so.
[00:31:40] Speaker B: Well, I don't do that.
[00:31:41] Speaker A: No, no. The original ending was. The whole book was originally about Roger.
[00:31:45] Speaker B: Okay.
[00:31:45] Speaker A: That's never really come up, I think, on your podcast. No, Greg. Greg's the one who tore Roger out of it.
The original story was an epic transition.
[00:31:56] Speaker B: I think Greg actually may have mentioned that when we were talking about, like, Roger's constant complaining about his life.
[00:32:03] Speaker A: Right, right. So the original story ended with Roger narrating the end. And there's artifacts of that story still out there that got stuck in there that we missed.
So, like, the opening sequence is actually supposed to mirror the ending sequence with Roger on his YouTube channel. Right.
But we don't do that, because Grace probably brought this up. I think he's brought up podcasts, which is when we got to issue two people with Sarah. Crazy.
Why isn't Sarah on the COVID Why isn't no more Sarah? Sarah wasn't the main character originally, so there had to be a lot of changes. So there's a lot of artifacting going on all the way through the book.
[00:32:44] Speaker B: One fact I told you and Greg that when I think, was it, was it the release for, was it the fifth Kickstarter? I made you rewrite the copy.
[00:32:53] Speaker A: Yeah. Yeah.
[00:32:54] Speaker B: Because it said something about Sarah being the main character, and I said, you're giving away things in the book if you tell people Sarah is the main character.
[00:33:01] Speaker A: Right. It is.
[00:33:02] Speaker B: And I hadn't even read the issue yet. Right. But I was like, Sarah is not the main character right now. Yeah, these are the main characters. If you say Sarah is the main character now, hopefully you've read those issues, because obviously this is, we've already spoiled things from the first six issues. But, yeah, I straight up told Travis, I messaged Greg. I didn't message Travis. I said, I messaged Greg, and I said, tell. Get Travis now and fix this, because you're giving. You're ruining the next issue. Right. Like, by doing that.
[00:33:32] Speaker A: Yeah. So far, no one's guessed the ending, which, because other people have gotten to see it.
Tom did not guessed it, and he was heartbroken.
[00:33:43] Speaker B: Well, as an esteemed, valued member of the comic book media. Right. Like, should have my comic book press pass everywhere. I know I'm not the first person to see it, but, you know, this is. No, it's fantastic. I'm really glad we got to do this, too. This is one of the first times I've gotten to analyze something with a creator like this, like, up close and personal.
[00:34:05] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:34:05] Speaker B: And no, I did not get the ending. But what I can tell you is the ending makes sense.
You were able to create an ending that I didn't predict but can kick myself for not predicting it.
[00:34:19] Speaker A: Oh, yeah. Yeah. Especially when you saw the last page.
Tell me what you. Let me have some validation here.
[00:34:28] Speaker B: Okay. So I will say this. Okay. You ask if I figured out the ending. Yeah, I did figure out the ending. Two pages before you let me see the last page, which is why I let you let me see the last.
[00:34:38] Speaker A: Page, which is good, because you don't want it to be boom.
[00:34:43] Speaker B: Yeah, you don't want it to be boom.
The visual on the last page, though. Holy shit. Brett, thank you so much.
[00:34:52] Speaker A: It's horrifying. It's crazy.
[00:34:55] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:34:55] Speaker A: You should beat what I just said later.
[00:34:57] Speaker B: It's horrifying. We don't need to be. You realize nothing gets edited out of these podcasts unless Greg pauses to take a work phone call or something and I run out of things to say. Yeah, a little inside baseball, everybody. I'm right here with Travis. But if Greg takes a work phone call, you know when I do those, like, two minute monologues. Oh, yeah, now, you know, the inside baseball, the podcast. But I'm like Garth on Wayne. I'm like Garth on Wayne's World, you know, like, Greg leaves and I have no idea what to do with myself. But yeah, no, the art.
Brett's art is always good. And I think one of the things I do when I analyze the starlight story is I start getting into the character analysis and I just go, Bret's art's amazing.
Well, it's hard cuz we're on a podcast, right, to show off these visuals. Brett's art is insane. I want the last page print for my fucking house.
Yes.
[00:35:55] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:35:55] Speaker B: Like, that should have been like. I mean, I know you can't do it as an incentive because you'd give away the story, but that should be an incentive poster right there.
[00:36:02] Speaker A: This thing.
[00:36:03] Speaker B: Yeah, I would. I would pay. I would pay an extra. I would pay an extra $20 to have that for my house. Right?
[00:36:09] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:36:09] Speaker B: In fact, I'm probably gonna go ask Brett to draw it for me.
[00:36:12] Speaker A: Yeah. Or at least build a poster of.
[00:36:14] Speaker B: It for you or do something like.
[00:36:16] Speaker A: Maybe we'll print some posters for people afterwards. But, um. Yeah, man, that. That was a ride.
[00:36:22] Speaker B: Hey, it was a ride.
[00:36:23] Speaker A: Action.
Because that was one of the things that bugged me. Oh, yeah, that's what I was gonna ask about that the first half of the book. Yeah, it's the first time I really let Brett go crazy. I mean, really let him go crazy.
[00:36:37] Speaker B: How it felt great. Well, I didn't move, right? Yeah, when you get the OCD kid not to move, right? Like. And like, you're like, I want everything to be perfect on the line. I'm just kicked back in the chair on Travis house, my foot up on his coffee table reading this, the other one that's like, I wonder if Travis wants my feet on his coffee table. That's the inside baseball, this podcast. But yeah, it's. No, it's fantastic.
I also. I also got a kick out of reading all your liner notes at the top of each page. Right. I'm chuckling about some of them. But I don't want to get too far into it. But, yeah, I mean, if you're looking. If you're looking for a. Let's. Can I say just this? Right? I'm gonna. Now it feels like I'm shilling. I know I'm shilling for. I'm shilling for the book. Of course I am. Cause I love it. Everybody thinks I'm shilling for stuff when I love things.
[00:37:26] Speaker A: Well, it's.
[00:37:27] Speaker B: Cause I love things. Listen to our podcast. I definitely don't shill for things I don't like. In fact, many of you like listening to the podcast when I don't like it. You like hearing me be sad. I know that we've seen the ratings on some of those.
May I remind Captain America, taking too many drugs. But the. Yeah, like this. No, the beginning is amazing. Brett's art's amazing on the throughput. I mean, Brett, Brett, by issues, he knew in issue one, but by issue seven, he knows the characters, he knows how to weave the story. And when you look at.
When you. Travis is writing a very detailed script. But when you look at what Brett is doing, when you follow Brett's art, we get.
It's interesting. Okay, I'll just share with folks, because it's interesting to read these from a script perspective. And the r. Right. You usually only get that after. So most of the time, you'll grab a hardcover or something like that. And you'll get something like this in the back of the hardcover. Right. For, like, maybe one of the issues. But you've already read the issue.
And so because I'm not creating in this way on a regular basis, because I'm a reader and a historian and not as much of a creator. Right. I don't get to see this all the time, and I'm guessing most of the listeners don't either. So they'll see the script notes with, you know, a page by page on.
They'll see script notes with a page by page. Right. Later, after they've already read the story. This is really cool. Travis, the experience. I thank you for this because it was fun to read the script with the blank pages. Right. As we go through the. Also unique thing about this is a lot of the pages were already fully colored by Brett. So I got to actually see the fully colored pages, which you also don't get to see alongside the script very often you'll see rough pencils or something like that. This is a really cool to see. And I could say is too. I can almost just like, look through Brett's art without any words, and the story would all make sense.
[00:39:27] Speaker A: Mm hmm.
[00:39:29] Speaker B: And when the writers and the artists are on that kind of, when you all have it dialed in that much.
[00:39:35] Speaker A: The lighter notes are a big clue of how we communicate.
[00:39:38] Speaker B: Yeah. Oh, I love the liner notes.
[00:39:41] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:39:42] Speaker B: I love the 2001 references in the liner notes.
[00:39:46] Speaker A: Yeah. Well, the thing is, is, you know, when I first started working on books, I've worked on multiple mediums. Right. When I write. When I work in prose and stuff, or working on booklets, prose, you're writing directly to the reader.
[00:39:59] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:40:00] Speaker A: When you. When you're working on a film, right. You're. You're mostly writing to everyone but the end viewer, the audience. The only person you're not writing for is the audience. When you're writing a script, you're writing dialogue for an actor, you're writing basic notations to give some idea to the director and to the producers and to the costume. You're not gonna have any involvement in any of that. Right. That's what I would say. Just write the dialogue and only put stuff in if it's key.
[00:40:30] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:40:30] Speaker A: Right. So that's. That's your audience there. But you don't write directly. Everything you write is gonna be interpreted, hit by a whole team of people who are probably better at all these things than you are. Right. And that's what's going to be delivered.
[00:40:40] Speaker B: Right.
[00:40:41] Speaker A: They're the ones talking to the audience. Yeah, effectively. Actually, the person talking, the most people talking to the audience, the most direct contact to the audience is probably the costume designers, the actor, the editor, and the director. The cinematographer has too. But no one's quite understanding what they're seeing. They're going to mistake that for the director.
Someone in Hollywood's probably gonna write me a nasty letter later, but when I'm.
[00:41:05] Speaker B: Writing a comic book, they can, but they're wrong.
[00:41:08] Speaker A: Like, when you're writing comic books, I write to Brett, you know, like, that's the audience I have. I need him to interpret what I'm seeing in my head, you know? And this is true, Greg, most good comic book writers, when you see their scripts, you'll see that they don't just say, this happens. Yeah, that happens. But really good comic book writers, I found throughout the years, the guys, when I was looking at their scripts, wrote directly to their artists.
[00:41:37] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:41:38] Speaker A: You know, and I saw an Alan Moore script once, and it is long, and people like, oh, he racist, but he's writing to an artist who he knows, he understands, you know, and he knows what to say to the artist to get the artist to portray as closely as possible what he wants to portray. Because comics medium is different than all those other means, right?
[00:41:59] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:42:00] Speaker A: There's more than just, like, the visual people. Comics are a visual medium. Comic books are actually a physical medium.
[00:42:07] Speaker B: Well, you can always go back and edit a script. Yeah, but once you get the art dialed in, I mean, you can edit art too, but art is much more difficult to edit than just edit editing a script. So you can edit a script to match what's on the page or dial back some of the words so your script isn't as wordy to let the art speak for itself. Yeah.
[00:42:27] Speaker A: So, like those liner notes, I know someone's probably laughing and stuff. Like, you know, you should probably just drop some ecstasy before you draw this page, you know? Oh, remember that scene six minutes in on the first cut of 2001 space Odyssey? Not the director's version. You know, they have this satellite dish.
[00:42:47] Speaker B: Well, I can't believe you would get that in depth about Sci-Fi being the person. I know, but, like, it's. Yeah, it's, you know, it's really fantastic. And I'm gonna quit saying, like, fantastic and great, but since I don't get to talk about the book yet, we better stop pretty soon because you're gonna run out of things. But, yeah, definitely did not call the ending all so good. And definitely there was also, I would just tell you, I mentioned power structures at the start. There was a tie back to something that I had in the power structure conversation in issue six. That happens again. And obviously, I'm not going to say what it is.
I'm not going to say what it is, but I'll just give you that the ability to thread it and make it continue was fantastic.
[00:43:36] Speaker A: I'm gonna ask you one last question that was important to me was, there's this. Not the very end. Right, but there's a scene in there.
Was that Kurt, that cathartic?
[00:43:50] Speaker B: Yes.
[00:43:51] Speaker A: You know what scene it was, right?
[00:43:53] Speaker B: You know what scene it was cathartic, but actually, for me, it was a different scene that was cathartic. But I'm not gonna say.
[00:43:59] Speaker A: Okay, I'll ask you. After we hit stop, there were two. All right, cool, cool. Because that's the scene I wanted to be cathartic.
Do you feel like you understand the vine better, too?
[00:44:10] Speaker B: Yes. Yes.
[00:44:11] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:44:11] Speaker B: I mean, this is. Yeah. If the last issue was, like, a spotlight on earn, slash, Aaron, and. And Sarah, this was a spotlight on the culture of the vine. We got a little bit of it in the previous issue, too, because we got some history of it in the previous two issues. We got some. No, four and six. We got a little bit more of the history, but we got a much better understanding of the vine, what they do. And this won't spoil anything, because you've already revealed it a little bit, but we got a little bit better explanation of the colonial nature of the vine, sort of like thinking they were like the colonial fathers of space and then what the implications were for them and what it did to other people. Right. And honestly, too, like, I. I don't. I did. Definitely did not say this in issue six because I was focused on more the power structure thing, but I. Maybe I did. I can't remember. I. These podcasts, and Greg and I talk for an hour and a half, but it's very Star Trek prime directive to me. Right. Like, what would happen if there was no prime directive, was no prime directive, and you just did stuff that you wanted to.
[00:45:24] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:45:25] Speaker B: And what the hell would happen, right. And you get a lot more of that. So if you are a Star Trek fan and you know what the prime directive is, then you know it's not to interfere with new cultures you come into contact with. Right. Until they meet a certain level of technology.
[00:45:40] Speaker A: Right. Standards. So they can hold their own. Their culture won't be crushed by the idea of space.
[00:45:47] Speaker B: Exactly. Yeah. The simple explanation is you have to get to work before you get contacts. More complicated. But you can watch first contact. That's basically when the vulcans come to Earth, right. Is after they get warp driven. And then, of course, somehow the humans surpass the vulcans and technology magically, you know, because we're humans, right?
[00:46:04] Speaker A: I don't know, man. Those vulcan ships are insane.
[00:46:07] Speaker B: They are pretty insane.
[00:46:09] Speaker A: So. Well, there's Caesar, and he's telling us it's time to end the podcast.
[00:46:13] Speaker B: That is Caesar the cat. Yeah, we're away from Juliet the dog, but we are near Caesar the cat. So Cesar Cat has come in, told us to end this podcast, but we'll wrap this up just since we are doing a little mini version of funny book forensics, we are going to give another shout out to project aschner.com for they don't host us, but they publish us or they publish us. Who knows what are words today? They put us on their website, and they make sure you have access to it. And we do love them. And I promise you, I'll be nice today. It isn't a political website. It's definitely a site for everything, nerd. So go and check out some of the other podcasts that they're running up because of us. They're now ramping up some of their other podcasts as well. So I'm excited to see what they put out there. So with that, also, since Greg's not here, we got to talk about the retro Emporium in Kent, Washington, right?
[00:47:01] Speaker A: Yeah, retro Emporium.
Lots of video games.
[00:47:04] Speaker B: Relive your childhood.
[00:47:05] Speaker A: I miss my video games.
[00:47:06] Speaker B: Yeah. And of course, we didn't mention jiu jitsu lawyer Paul Badreau on this one. But if you want the best jujitsu training in the Puget sound, you can find him on 27th and Bridgeport in university Place, Tacoma, Washington. So go out there. And you can also remember, even though this is an in between version of the podcast, he's the one making me read terror titans. Yeah, there, I said it. So you can blame him or be happy, because I'm sad in every single episode, just like you like. And Travis, do you have anything to plug? I feel like, yeah, plug Starlight again.
[00:47:39] Speaker A: Because when this comes out, hopefully it will. You know, it's funny, we're launching Starlight on the first day of EDC, electric Daisy carnival. So I'm literally going to be doing an hour long video launch while I get ready to take off to EDC.
[00:47:54] Speaker B: There you go.
[00:47:54] Speaker A: Have a whole bunch of ravers coming here, too. It's so horrible.
[00:47:57] Speaker B: Well, that's going to be an adventure. I feel like Sarah would be proud of you.
[00:48:00] Speaker A: Oh, yeah. Or creeped out. Anyways, starlightkickstarter.com is the address for the Kickstarter. It should be launched by the time the show comes out and we have overcastcomicsbooks.com.
[00:48:14] Speaker B: All right, well, that's a wrap. So thanks for listening. Thank you, one listener, for engaging with us and listening to us again.
[00:48:21] Speaker A: Oh, you would have to, because my mom will listen to this.
[00:48:24] Speaker B: Oh, that's fantastic. We've got Travis mom, new listener. Thank you, guys. Thanks, everyone, and we'll talk to you soon.
