Funny Book Forensics 271 George and Wonder Woman

[00:00:06] Speaker A: Okay, Greg, so you watched something? [00:00:10] Speaker B: I did. I did. And no, it was not the Snyder cut. I'm sorry, everyone. I could not be swayed or pulled into multiple hours of film. Although, though I am tempted to do so, just not at this time or juncture. I'm kind of a behind the ball person, if you will. I let things kind of hang out and sit for a year or so and then finally get around to watching it. So, yeah, I watched Wonder Woman. 1984, I think, like a year after everyone else. [00:00:49] Speaker A: Has it been a year? I thought it came out at Christmas time. [00:00:52] Speaker B: Oh, was it Christmas? It was Christmas. It felt like these COVID months seem like years. [00:00:58] Speaker A: I mean, I guess it is April. [00:01:00] Speaker B: It is April 6 months. No, four months. [00:01:04] Speaker A: I watched it at Christmas time in the front room of some friends and their three boys. And we all watched it together. Yeah, it was different reactions from different people. So one boy could not pay attention the entire movie and left. [00:01:26] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:01:28] Speaker A: Because it's very long. [00:01:29] Speaker B: Was it you? [00:01:30] Speaker A: No. As you're aware, my probably top five favorite supervillain is in that film. [00:01:41] Speaker B: Yes. [00:01:42] Speaker A: Even though maybe wouldn't be my top five favorite supervillain if it was based off the film. [00:01:50] Speaker B: Oh, we can get into it for a minute, I'm sure. [00:01:54] Speaker A: Maybe. [00:01:55] Speaker B: I know we're here to discuss something completely different, but without what we're going to discuss, we wouldn't have the film that I watched. [00:02:03] Speaker A: That's factual. Because without the George Perez reboot of Wonder Woman in 1986, we wouldn't get the version of Wonder Woman that you're seeing in media today. [00:02:13] Speaker B: That's correct. 100%. And in all honesty, I watched the film of my wife, who knows of Wonder Woman, has read a handful of books, but not read all of the stuff. It wasn't her go to as a comic book reader when she was younger, and she was interested in checking out the movie. And we thoroughly enjoyed it. We felt it was a great sequel to the first movie. And from a storytelling perspective, I was happy that it was the length that it was, because it was a great amount of movie to tell such a great amount of story. [00:03:04] Speaker A: Well, yeah. So I read no Wonder Woman comics until the 2000s ever. And into the Greg Rucka and Gail Simone Phil Jimenez stuff later on, which is really great stuff. And also a few other authors down the low road that I just drew a major blank on, like the most famous person I was thinking of that did it. Besides those three amazing people I already listed, which is funny that I'm not remembering the person that is probably the most famous of the Four. But that's okay. There's been some great Wonder Woman runs because of this. And I think you'll also, if you dig back into the George Prej relaunch, I think it's more than Wonder Woman, but it's more of the villains and relaunching. Like, you don't get the Cheetah, that version of the Cheetah, you would have gotten the Priscilla rich version of the cheetah, as opposed. That would have been the old one. So you're getting different, relaunched characters where the Cheetah was more of a socialite than a force of nature. Right. There's different things, but this is all me learning from the back end. And so we are diving into some interesting territory here because I'd never read any of this. I can't imagine why Wonder Woman wasn't of great interest to me. [00:04:26] Speaker B: I don't know. I would say probably because as young kids growing up, this is not something that is thrown into a boy's hands to read. It's generally not. You're usually given other books. So Wonder Woman, definitely not one of those ones you would have picked up. [00:04:49] Speaker A: Yeah. Though I'm a big Legion fan, as everybody's aware. So I did read books with plenty of female and male characters, and I loved the X Men books and I loved the lot of. But it was not more single character female books that I guess I was reading. But this was the attempt to get Wonder Woman in the hands of everybody. Right? Like, this is the relaunch. [00:05:13] Speaker B: Previous versions, you had a female version of Superman. And in previous podcasts, we talked about the relaunch prior to this, which both of us were kind of dumbfounded by the powerless Wonder Woman super spy. [00:05:32] Speaker A: Yeah, well, and it looks like, too, I snagged an article from Vulture kind of chronicling why this relaunch happened. And I'll put that in the show notes over the next few weeks. But just to your point, they cited to that kind of male Superman. But also, yeah, we mentioned know, like Denny O'Neill, a great writer, didn't always hit right. They depowered Wonder Woman. He tried to make her into a super spy. There was all sorts of different kind of reboots and relaunches. I think the article also cites that. They cite that one Wonder Woman was like, from the World War II, and then one Wonder Woman was from the. Was different people. Later on, we sort of get a reboot to post these stories that I'm going to say Hippolyta, but that wasn't how it was spelled in this book, but Hippolyta was Wonder Woman of the Silver Age. Sorry, Golden Age. And then Diana was Wonder Woman later to kind of fit with this reboot. So, I mean, you get a few of those stories going on, but, yeah, this was definitely an attempt by George Perez to build interest in the character. And we're looking at Wonder Woman Number one from 1986. And what happened with what major event we've already alluded to. It was going on in comics at the time or just finishing up before this book. [00:06:59] Speaker B: Was it a crisis of some sort? [00:07:01] Speaker A: It was a crisis of some sort. There was also a secret war. [00:07:04] Speaker B: Oh, my. [00:07:06] Speaker A: Going on somewhere too. [00:07:08] Speaker B: Two things going on in comics at the same time from two different publishers. [00:07:12] Speaker A: That's amazing. Crossover books. What, we've never done that before. Well, at least we hadn't until then. Now is everywhere. But I think the important thing, too, about this, they, you'd had a lot of great stuff coming from DC Watchmen. You had Frank Miller's Dark Knight or Dark Knight Returns, I should say. So. You've got these things coming out. And you also have a relaunch of Superman by John Beer coming. Curse his immortal soul for destroying Superman in the Legion of superheroes. And he's a terrible human being for doing that. Superboy is Superman when he's a boy, and I hate you. And then we also have George Perez relaunching Wonder Woman. And what's George Perez famous for? Greg? [00:08:03] Speaker B: Too many things to count. But you put me on the spot. [00:08:12] Speaker A: Everything. [00:08:13] Speaker B: Like I was going to say, just too many things to count. You could just start listing things. [00:08:19] Speaker A: Yeah. And of course, we mentioned George Perez in our Titans episode when we were looking at Danny Chase. Of course, George Perez didn't draw that book, but new Teen Titans, Avengers, Justice League, you're looking team books especially, which is really interesting that he would draw a solo book because he's so known for drawing these beautiful splash pages and team pages and characters everywhere. And so I did think it was really neat. And I guess, should we get into the story? [00:08:47] Speaker B: Yeah, we could continue to talk about everything that's derivative of this story. [00:08:55] Speaker A: Or we could talk about the story. [00:08:56] Speaker B: Or talk about the story. I mean, again, without this, we wouldn't have the media that we have today or any of the things moving forward. So, yeah, let's just jump into it. Issue number one. [00:09:10] Speaker A: And I will qualify this. This is one where Greg and I decided neither of us are Wonder Woman scholars in any way. We're not Wonder Woman historians. So if you want to chime in with some information we miss over the next few podcasts, please do, because add to our reading list, get us into the history, because this is what we like. And we've actually decided as of today that we're going to do the entire first story arc. So you're going to have several weeks of Wonder Woman in a row. [00:09:39] Speaker B: Whoa. That's a lot. [00:09:41] Speaker A: It's a lot. But this first one is 36 pages. So we're going to go ahead and stick to issue number one for this podcast. And we may double up on a couple down the road, but I believe it's a 13 issue story arc. But I think that's really cool too, because we really get to see George Perez develop Wonder Woman over time without being interrupted. And then I think it was 66 issues or 62, but something around there, he stays on the book for five years. [00:10:07] Speaker B: Yeah, it's a chunk. It's a pretty good investment of time for him. And just the way that you put so much time into this, he would be remiss to walk away just after those 1st 13, right. So, yeah, I can totally understand why he'd want to stick. There's my cat. [00:10:32] Speaker A: But I think one of the great things here as the cat joins us on the podcast, because the cat is clearly a fan of Wonder Woman that we're looking at. George Perez, too, makes this a George Perez book. I mean, we immediately get this cover with the Pantheon. Did I get it right? Gotta help me with all my. [00:10:50] Speaker B: I believe it's a pantheon. And also, if you are a mythology scholar or historian or have a background or just a liking for any of this mythology that we will be covering and butchering and butchering and butchering. Yes, please chime in and let us know what you know so we can grow, because we don't have all this knowledge about all this Greek mythology and Roman mythology and other things that come into play. So there's a lot of really interesting stuff that we found in these pages. And gosh darn, there's a lot of information we need to go and look up. [00:11:31] Speaker A: Well, and I think, too, though, the fun of this, I'm going to take this approach from Perez's intent and of course, William Moulton Marston, the creator of Wonder Woman's original intent, too. I'm going to use these books to help me learn about Greek and Roman gods. [00:11:45] Speaker B: It's almost like you were hit by the Lasso of truth and you're just like spitting it all out right now. [00:11:49] Speaker A: Yeah, well, that's what I'm going to do. The Lasso of truth. I believe it got a new name. Let's go with the Lasso of truth. I don't know. We've got girdles and lassos and ropes and spears and pantheons and all sorts of things going on in this issue. But I do want to take it from the perspective too. I think Perez makes it accessible, really teaching us about who the gods were. Right? [00:12:18] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:12:19] Speaker A: And so I would say, well, let's dig in. All right, so cover. [00:12:26] Speaker B: Oh, yeah. Like you already said, it is ripe, full of great art. A lot of stuff going on on this cover. Not a detail to be overlooked. [00:12:38] Speaker A: It's also A wraparound cover because it's George Perez. So you also get a back, too, and it is ridiculously beautiful. You've got a pantheon of female gods here behind Wonder Woman, presumably. And I'm assuming they're all gods. I don't know that because I'm not into the story, but it sort of looks like it. We get the Amazon armor that we see later. At least this version is gold, but very reminiscent of a lot of the different Amazon armor and things like that that we see later. We get Diana twice right up top. I think that's. Is that Diana down below, or is it Hippolyte or Hippolyte, because Hippolyta is always the way. I've seen it spelled before, but then it was Hippolyte in the. [00:13:26] Speaker B: Know. I don't know. [00:13:29] Speaker A: Well, should we go with Hippolyte until it's spelled Hippolyta and then just sound ignorant when we find out it's supposed to be Hippolyta the whole time? [00:13:35] Speaker B: Yes. [00:13:36] Speaker A: Okay, so we'll go with Hippolyte for just. But the amazing thing, the Dubs. [00:13:44] Speaker B: Yes. [00:13:45] Speaker A: Like, only George Perez does all of this and then throws some dubs in there for the background, just for. [00:13:50] Speaker B: It's like a John Wu movie. [00:13:53] Speaker A: And then. Is that Hermes up there running. [00:13:59] Speaker B: Across. [00:13:59] Speaker A: The bottom of the. Yeah, well, I only know because that's what his name was in the book. So we're going to go. All right, well, let's dig in. So if you're on the DC Comics app, and I'm sure others, you get the nice version of the wraparound cover too. And we are in. And so we get a lot of text and a lot of beautiful art. We get this caveman, I guess. [00:14:29] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:14:30] Speaker A: I don't know if that's the politically current correct term. Would it be? I don't. [00:14:35] Speaker B: Ancient man. [00:14:37] Speaker A: Sure. And some bearded guy with some stuff, and he looks hurt and he's wearing a fur. Yeah. He got cast out because he couldn't beat up a saber toothed tiger, apparently. [00:14:52] Speaker B: Yeah. And he lost his hand. [00:14:55] Speaker A: And that sucks. [00:14:57] Speaker B: He's a man with one hand. [00:15:01] Speaker A: So his wife comes to comfort him, presumably. [00:15:04] Speaker B: Wife, presumably, yes. [00:15:08] Speaker A: And we get a lot of whining and crying from the caveman. And we get caveman hitting his wife and murdering her. And at first I thought this was very strange. Open a Wonder Woman book. [00:15:27] Speaker B: Yeah, it's a dark open, and it's a shocking, like, two pages. [00:15:41] Speaker A: And I'm also not a huge fan for abuse of any kind for no reason. Yeah. So I guess I will foreshadow this simply by saying, don't stop reading here, because it does pay off into the story. In this case, you may not like this type of violence. It's not my favorite, but it does actually fit into the story. And you get the hint of that as we see a kind of energy coming out of the woman. And he screams and this energy sort of goes off into the cosmos. And that's your first two pages. And by the way, on the first two pages there were. 1234-5678 910, 1112. 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20. 212-223-2425 panels. [00:16:36] Speaker B: That's a lot of panels in such a small space, but there's a lot of art in there. [00:16:45] Speaker A: I love George Perez. [00:16:48] Speaker B: It's amazing. [00:16:51] Speaker A: And then we flip the page and we get. DC Comics proudly Presents Wonder Woman, created by William Moulton Marston. And we get the credits at the bottom. Script by Greg Potter. Co plotters, Greg Potter. George Perez. Pencils by George Perez. Bruce Patterson on Inks. Thank you, Bruce. Love your inks. John Costanza on Letters. Tahana Wood colors. And Karen Berger, Dan's favorite editor as the editor. And she should be everybody's favorite editor because she was the editor for Paul Levitt's on Legion, of course, but she was also editor for the Vertigo line. And also, George Perez cites Karen Berger as being highly influential in this book because as a male writer, he wanted a woman to bounce ideas off of for Wonder Woman. And Karen Berger was just that. Keeping him in line and keeping the. [00:17:46] Speaker B: Characters realistic totally makes a. From a writer's perspective, it's what you need if you're writing and you don't have that perspective. You need somebody to be that sounding board to make sure that you're always keeping true. [00:18:02] Speaker A: And I just think it's cool here that Karen Berger, who helped create so much of the Vertigo universe, right? And with her editorial office is here recreating a major character once again. And obviously, she Was there with Paul Levitz through a lot of the recreation reconceptualization of the Legion, too, which, as we noted a couple of years before this Legion and Titans were the top two selling books. And so here Karen's coming over and continuing her editorial work on a relaunch. [00:18:28] Speaker B: Which I think is great doing the good work she does. [00:18:33] Speaker A: So we're here, and we get a really cool looking God castle. [00:18:40] Speaker B: Yes, a really cool looking God castle. Lots of faces sticking, jutting out of. [00:18:46] Speaker A: Places, and we get a guy who's running off his backside by running up to the top with the big staff. I think this Hermes. We'll find out in a minute. I was like, is this Mercury? I don't know. See, I'm just going to plead my ignorance. This is something I was never interested in studying in school. [00:19:09] Speaker B: Same. I mean, it was not my thing, so maybe I should have read more Wonder Woman. [00:19:17] Speaker A: Yeah, well, it would have helped us, but what are we going to learn in these 1st 13 issues? This is going to be pretty amazing. [00:19:22] Speaker B: This is true. [00:19:24] Speaker A: We hear Lord Zeus, King of gods. Listen not to these babbling fools. It is true that man must now be dealt with. And we get somebody I'm totally familiar with because this Wonder Woman villain shows up all over the. Oh, and it's Aries bad. And I knew that was Aries. [00:19:45] Speaker B: He's a bad dude. [00:19:46] Speaker A: He is a bad dude. He also shows up on the cartoons in different places, too. So I've seen Aries before. He shows up in the Justice League at JLA, I think a lot of different places. And later on, when I read Wonder Woman, too, so that's cool. But he is going on and on about the dogs of war and crushing people and getting people, and one of the gods talks back and says, no, Aries violence will make man fear us, not follow us. Our intent of the new race with this new race is to set an example to show man and women their true place with each other, as Gaia is meant to be. So apparently they're acknowledging the idea of what a male dominated society, I guess, and we're just kind of getting into it. So we're looking at the patriarchy, and female members of the Pantheon want to develop a race to balance that out. [00:20:47] Speaker B: Bringing balance to the world. [00:20:49] Speaker A: And so Ares and Artemis are going at it here, and then some other folks chime in, start talking to Zeus. We got, like, what Apollo here. Is that Apollo? [00:21:04] Speaker B: Maybe. [00:21:06] Speaker A: I don't know. It was. Hey. Called him Apollo. All right, I got this. So I'm learning here. I'm not sure what they all do yet, but we're good. All right. And so they kind of have a big fight. Is that a pretty good summary there? Fight over this. And then Zeus gets mad, throws some lightning bolts. Is like, settle this trifling matter among yourselves. Don't bother Zeus. Zeus is just like, I'm out of here. The rest of you, figure out Zeus's. Yeah, Zeus doesn't seem to act. He seems pretty. [00:21:44] Speaker B: He. Well, I mean, he's got other things to do. He's Zeus. The one thing I know about Zeus I learned from the Hercules movie. From Disney. [00:21:53] Speaker A: Oh, no, I'm just joking. [00:21:54] Speaker B: Was it Disney? I don't know. [00:21:55] Speaker A: I figured you learned about it from the tales of Hercules. [00:21:59] Speaker B: Oh, yeah. That's another Evan Sorbo. Yeah. No, I watched a little bit of it. I don't know. I checked out. [00:22:07] Speaker A: You watched more Xena Warrior princess. [00:22:09] Speaker B: I did. It's true. I did. [00:22:11] Speaker A: Because everybody did. [00:22:13] Speaker B: Everybody. [00:22:14] Speaker A: It doesn't matter if you are gay, straight, or whatever. You watched more Xena Warrior princess because Xena, Warrior Princess was a badass. [00:22:22] Speaker B: That's. Where was it? [00:22:23] Speaker A: She was a Cylon. [00:22:24] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:22:25] Speaker A: Oh, spoiler. Sorry. [00:22:27] Speaker B: Oh, man. If you haven't watched, I'm sorry, 20. [00:22:31] Speaker A: Years spoiled things that are too old for you. Yeah, some poetry out there that's never even. [00:22:38] Speaker B: Never even watched Battlestar Galactica. You just ruined it. [00:22:42] Speaker A: Well, that doesn't spoil anything. She's a Cylon the whole time, isn't she? [00:22:47] Speaker B: I don't know. Well, they're secretive. [00:22:50] Speaker A: Kind of like gods, Kinda. Yeah, but they are gods. Let me just spoil the whole series for you. [00:22:58] Speaker B: Oh, my gosh. [00:23:00] Speaker A: They're what? Or, wait, we're gods. No, wait. They're gods. Know what? Starbucks is a god. Wait, hold up. So if you go back in time. Oh, anyway, back to. So back to Wonder Woman. They appeal to Hera. Artemis appeals to Hera. Will you not speak with Lord Zeus? Take care of things? And she's like, no. My husband is proud. And your words have stirred a storm within. Whoa. Done. Boom, chicka bomb, bomb. Okay. And my advice is for you to take. Wait. I have words. My advice to you is this. Walk not lightly into such a maelstrom. [00:23:39] Speaker B: It's a good words. [00:23:41] Speaker A: Okay, well, the gods are at it. And. And Ares is proud of himself saying that Hera turned her back on them. He's got this he's going to. Thus will man's heart ultimately belong to Ares through war and destruction. Ha. And he flies off literally saying, ha. Which it was, actually, ha. I get that. Right? I want to mess it up for you. No, there's no Boa Ha's in this book, only ha. Like, evil villain. Like, that's where we're at. I think that's what it was, actually. There we go. Okay, so we've got it, and they're talking, and he know Aries leaves, saying he's going to even more than Zeus himself. They'll bow to his power, and now they're upset because that's blasphemy. You don't tear down Zeus. [00:24:48] Speaker B: No. [00:24:50] Speaker A: And they're all chatting, and. Well, they then start proceeding to create the race without Zeus's blessing. So they're on their way. [00:25:00] Speaker B: They're on their way. And you're right. That was Hermes. [00:25:03] Speaker A: All right. So, in Hermes hanging out. Okay, so they head down, and we've got the female pantheon that's on the COVID And Demeter. We've added Demeter. I don't know who Demeter is. She. [00:25:22] Speaker B: She, they. It's what you use as a rating. [00:25:33] Speaker A: Know, I just knew you'd bait me into that at some point. Here we are. Well, the good news is, okay, they're cold because they're down in Tartarus. Right? Hell, Tartarus, River Styx. I think we're down. [00:25:54] Speaker B: Yeah, it's a good band. [00:25:56] Speaker A: And Sharon the fairy man comes to take them. [00:26:02] Speaker B: Yes. [00:26:02] Speaker A: Okay, so the gods all take off, and we've added Aphrodite, too, it looks like. Right? [00:26:08] Speaker B: It looks like. [00:26:08] Speaker A: Yes. Okay, and we're on our way, and we get to this well of rebirth. Cavern of Souls. Sounds like a good smell from. Do you have that cavern of souls well of rebirth spell for your 50th level Druid? [00:26:27] Speaker B: Sure. Yeah. Got to have exploding dice to make. [00:26:30] Speaker A: It work, but exploding dice, I figured you'd roll, like, 100 D six. [00:26:36] Speaker B: I can try. You know, cavern of soul sounds like an awesome band name from the kind of. [00:26:43] Speaker A: Does cavern of Souls opens for Soul Asylum? [00:26:48] Speaker B: Oh, my gosh. And jars they cover. [00:26:54] Speaker A: And the presidents of the United States. [00:26:57] Speaker B: Yes. [00:27:00] Speaker A: Who consequently were more qualified to be president of the United States than a recent president. [00:27:06] Speaker B: Yeah. Scarily enough, which baby pants do you want in office? [00:27:14] Speaker A: I don't. [00:27:18] Speaker B: Mean there's two baby pants. [00:27:20] Speaker A: Right? [00:27:20] Speaker B: You got Casper baby pants from presidents of the United States. Or baby. [00:27:30] Speaker A: Anyways, well, now we're down a path that you can never recover from, but we will endeavor to move on. You did it. I know. And so we've got the source from which all life is from. It looks like we got a bunch of souls here. We've got the tie back to the front page. Those lights are souls of women, their lives cut short by man's fear or in ignorance. So now we get, okay. That's what's being kept safe here by the Pantheon. And they say Gaia took them under her care before she left this plane. Now they await rebirth. And so now the Pantheon gets together. They raise their arms up in classic magic casting form, and Artemis opens her mouth, and all of a sudden, out of the water come a whole bunch of women. [00:28:28] Speaker B: Kapow. [00:28:32] Speaker A: And they proclaim that they're midwives to this new race. And that race would be the Amazons. [00:28:43] Speaker B: The Amazons. [00:28:45] Speaker A: Okay, so the Amazons now come out of the water, and we've got several. So we introduce a lot of characters very quickly. So I'm going to go through a few of these. Okay. And I'll probably mess up all the names. [00:28:58] Speaker B: You will? And that's okay. Someone will chime in later. [00:29:01] Speaker A: Okay. So the waters churn away, and among them is Medelip, and she whose oneness with nature shall make her oracle of the gods new race. And then we get Ayla, whose courage shall be as the hawks yet whose heart is so easily swayed. And then they are told, oh, I missed a couple on the other page. Sorry. We get Hippolyte becomes the first to rise and kiss Apollo's son, drenched in the sky. And her sister Antiope is reborn. And so they are the leaders of the Amazons. Right? And so that's our basic four. Right, I think that are introduced right there. Did I miss one? [00:29:49] Speaker B: I think that is okay. [00:29:52] Speaker A: And then the gods to come to them. And they say, you are the Chosen race, born to lead humanity in the ways of virtue, the way of Gaia. Through you, all men shall know us better and worship us always. Therefore, does Athena grant you wisdom that you may be guided by the light of truth and justice? I, Artemis, grant you the hunt. Demeter shall make your fields fruitful. I guess I know what Demeter does now. Hestia, that must be the one. That the owl. Right. Shall build you a city, warm your hearths. As it is fair Aphrodite, who grants you the greatest gift of love forevermore. You shall find strength in these gifts, and they are your sacred birthright. They are your power. Cool. And then they tell them, you, Hippolyte, will be queen. Antioch shall rule by your side and you get some gifts that should never be abused. Trust in Gaia's girdle. So, okay, I don't know what Gaia's girdle does, but it must be important. [00:30:58] Speaker B: It must be. [00:31:00] Speaker A: Okay. And Ares is looking at all this, and he is pissed. [00:31:07] Speaker B: He is an angry, angry, bad dude. [00:31:11] Speaker A: He just seems like a grumpy man. [00:31:13] Speaker B: He does. [00:31:17] Speaker A: Well, now we get to the next page, and as Ares stirs up the seeds of hate, basing what he's looking, tales of the Amazons go out there. And the Amazons are supposedly committing atrocities and being terrible. So by creating their city of love and kindness, of course they're out there, because as we learned in our Star Trek episode, anytime you create love, it creates a disastrous world where the Nazis win. [00:31:46] Speaker B: Oh, no, I would hope not. [00:31:50] Speaker A: So now we meet Heracles. [00:31:53] Speaker B: I would say this is a kind of page, though, for anyone that does read along later. This page right here. When I was a kid, I would dislike this page because of the scroll and all the text and everything else that's on here. It's so many words. And for me, as a young kid reading any book that had all this on there, I would have checked out at this point, because I'm like, this is like work. But as a writer now, I'm like, oh, no, you have to do that because you can't get all that in for the reader if you try to, you have to build all this stuff in, and it has to be in a way that makes sense. And it makes sense. But as a kid, oh, I'd hated it. [00:32:37] Speaker A: And here's where Dan and Greg were different kids, because I would have loved this page because it's giving me all the background I need and information because I have no idea what's going on. [00:32:46] Speaker B: It would have just taken me forever to read because I'm dyslexic. So trying to read it, I would have read this page like ten times. [00:32:54] Speaker A: Yeah, well. And I read slow as well, as you are aware. And so I think I might have struggled with that. But I think too, for me too, I got so few comics, like, at this time. Gosh, 86. Let's see. I would have just been reading Legion books off the newsstand. So I was reading like one book a month, right? So I would read those books over and over again. And so I think too, now, I might look at it as so many words, but if I just had a book to read, I might just dig into that and read it like four times too. [00:33:34] Speaker B: All I'm saying is you don't get this kind of thing in the family circle or in a Garfield comic. [00:33:39] Speaker A: All right, that's true. We love lasagna. That's right. And I hate Mondays because everybody loves Mondays. [00:33:49] Speaker B: No, they. [00:33:56] Speaker A: But we've got a woman talking to Heracles, not Hercules. [00:34:01] Speaker B: Heracles. Heracles. [00:34:05] Speaker A: I don't know if it's Hercules. Is it Heracles or Hercules? It looks like Heracles to me. [00:34:14] Speaker B: Heracles. [00:34:17] Speaker A: Okay, Herac. Heracles. [00:34:20] Speaker B: Heracles. [00:34:21] Speaker A: Can we phone a friend? [00:34:23] Speaker B: Phone a friend. [00:34:24] Speaker A: Well, you can call him Hercules, and I'll call him Heracles. Okay, that's fine. We'll just settle it that way. So this woman's talking to Heracles. There's no C there. Herrick. E-R-A-C-L-E-S. Herrick. Anyway, come back to my bed, hero. Keep sweeping with me and so can the Amazon queen who calls Euryth help. [00:35:00] Speaker B: Eurythes train dogs. [00:35:02] Speaker A: Yeah, okay. Anyway. Silence, wench. Heracles is no man's pet anyway. And what's happening is this person is stirring up Heracles due to the influence of Aries. [00:35:16] Speaker B: Maybe they had to use a different name because Hercules was already used in a different book series by a different publisher. [00:35:22] Speaker A: No, I don't think you can own Hercules. That's the one thing you can't own. That's why there's a Thor in DC and Marvel. The DC Thor. Not so good. The cat hates the DC Thor. See, just bringing up DC Thor made the cat go insane. [00:35:39] Speaker B: What are you talking about? Well, she heard that he was a dog and she was like, no, not having it. [00:35:52] Speaker A: There's some angry cat going on right now. [00:35:54] Speaker B: I know, it's vicious. [00:35:57] Speaker A: Well, we get a melting lady here. Yeah, I agree. Melting ladies are a little awkward. [00:36:09] Speaker B: I was like, man, Ghost Rider. [00:36:12] Speaker A: I don't think Ghost Rider is showing up here. I don't think you have two Ghost Riders. You can have multiple Aries, but you can't have multiple ghost Riders. So we get to the next page and so we get foolish goddesses. Aries is back. Do they truly believe that their Amazons could keep me in check? [00:36:35] Speaker B: Ha. [00:36:35] Speaker A: I am all things male evil in battling. [00:36:40] Speaker B: Bad dude. [00:36:41] Speaker A: Ares would totally be canceled. [00:36:43] Speaker B: He would be. He is a bad is. [00:36:47] Speaker A: He is all about being canceled. Soon, man, she'll forget all other gods and Ares will rule supreme. Ares seems to have an. [00:36:56] Speaker B: He does. [00:36:58] Speaker A: Like, he's always. [00:36:59] Speaker B: I guess, I wonder, like, if you took off his armor in his helmet, does he look like skeletor underneath. [00:37:05] Speaker A: No. [00:37:06] Speaker B: Oh, okay. [00:37:08] Speaker A: No questions I have to ask. No, remember, he was like a black cloud kind of thing. He, like, disappeared, remember? I mean, Skeletor, fog of war. [00:37:20] Speaker B: I know jokes, man. [00:37:26] Speaker A: It's funny, I said fog of war and touched my nose. Like you're across the room, like, ha, ha. You'd get that. And then since it's still COVID. We can't do this together, so you couldn't see me do that. [00:37:38] Speaker B: No, I could not. [00:37:39] Speaker A: I guess we could have been on video. But anyway. Well, anyway, now we get Heracles marching up to fight some Amazons. Here we go. We're ready to get started. We're going to do some. Everybody. Is Amazon fighting here soon? Yeah, and anyway, they go out to Greet Ares, or Heracles, who you're calling Hercules, the fabled Heracles. [00:38:07] Speaker B: Heracles. [00:38:10] Speaker A: Heraculus. [00:38:11] Speaker B: Heraculus. [00:38:12] Speaker A: Heraculus. And it doesn't go well. [00:38:16] Speaker B: No, Heraculus gets his. [00:38:20] Speaker A: He gets Heraculus. [00:38:22] Speaker B: He gets Heraculus. [00:38:23] Speaker A: Into a tree. [00:38:24] Speaker B: Into a tree, yeah. [00:38:26] Speaker A: So the oracle has let the Amazons know that they've come to declare war. He tries to fight with Hippolyte, does not go. He keeps calling her a Harlot queen, which is fascinating. I'm not really sure where that comes from. Must be the rumors. [00:38:47] Speaker B: It must be. [00:38:48] Speaker A: He grabs a tree and tries to hit her with it. And she knocks him out with the butt of her axe. [00:38:54] Speaker B: Well, he's like, his mother was immortal. So he's got weaknesses, man. [00:39:00] Speaker A: He's not. Yeah. [00:39:02] Speaker B: God. [00:39:04] Speaker A: Well, stillness falls over them. Peace rests. And Heracles reply. He says, ha. By Zeuskaro, Heracles is impressed. Men, lay back. The Amazons are worthy allies indeed. That's right. And so we get to the next page and they're all hanging out together. Everything's fine. Presumably. And then the queen drinks something out of a cup which is always a bad idea. [00:39:31] Speaker B: Bad, bad idea. [00:39:33] Speaker A: And so the queen drinks something out of a. Is. It's very clear that something is wrong as Heracles encourages her to drink. Basically. She's been Bill Cosby'd and she goes down. [00:39:53] Speaker B: Yep. [00:39:57] Speaker A: So it's good to know. Now we know where Bill Cosby got his ideas from. [00:40:01] Speaker B: Heracolis. [00:40:03] Speaker A: Yes. And there we. [00:40:07] Speaker B: She's not. The cat is totally upset by this. [00:40:10] Speaker A: The cat is not having anything to do with this. Is the cat leaving the room? [00:40:13] Speaker B: I'm trying to get the cat out. Hold on. She's just going to sit on the other side of the door. [00:40:18] Speaker A: And the whole time. [00:40:24] Speaker B: Hold on outside. I know. Well, you're loud and obnoxious. There you go. [00:40:46] Speaker A: It. [00:40:47] Speaker B: She was asleep the whole time, and then all of a sudden she woke up. [00:40:51] Speaker A: Well, it happens when we talk about a good book like Wonder Woman. I apologize. [00:40:55] Speaker B: I'm sorry. I am back. The cat is gone. [00:40:58] Speaker A: Well, we get to now the men have bound the Amazonians, take in Gaia's girdle, and it's not such a good scene. Hippolyta. Hippolyte, not sure how to say that again, cries out and asks the goddesses of Olympus to forgive her. And it looks like one of them comes to her. Athena comes to her and says, but you chose to withdraw from humanity, ignore the purpose for which you were created, grew bitter and corrupt. Have you forgotten your source of your power? Have you forgotten the example of where we're set? And she's like, please free me. And so he wants to take revenge, and she's reminded by Athena, bloody vengeance is not the answer, daughter. It is time for you to cleanse your soul. Time to rededicate yourself to that which Gaia gave you. Only then shall you be free. So they get out, and the Amazons pretty much destroy all of the army, decimate it. [00:42:18] Speaker B: It's a pretty bloody scene with no. [00:42:21] Speaker A: Blood in it, because. [00:42:24] Speaker B: I would say, okay, yes, it's a very vicious scene with no blood in it. There you go. [00:42:29] Speaker A: Because this book was approved by the Comics Code Authority. It was. [00:42:37] Speaker B: Yes. [00:42:37] Speaker A: Yeah. Thank you. Comics Code Authority. But in some ways, too, I think when there's not blood drenching all over the pages and there's blood dripping out of mouths and things like that, and you get the expressions and what George Perez is doing with all these scenes, it looks even cooler. [00:42:54] Speaker B: Yeah, you get the point. I mean, the point definitely is pulled across. I do like that kind of storytelling where it's up to the reader to really put that in. They see it, and you can kind of see it all play out in your head. So it's all there with the red backgrounds behind the Amazons and in their scenes or with their headshots and stuff like that, it's rage filled, but you get what's going on, so it really draws you to the action. [00:43:30] Speaker A: Yeah, I thought the coloring was amazing, too. I was thinking about the red as well. And then when they're triumphant, it's sort of a pinker, lighter background and then red again. Right. So there's a reaction, and Antiope and Hippolyta are fighting with each other. About what should happen. And Antelope takes a group and leaves and you get an even lighter color, like a darkness, to reflect them leaving sort of the sadness that's there. [00:43:59] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:44:00] Speaker A: As she kisses her sister on the cheek and says she will always love her. [00:44:07] Speaker B: Little bittersweet. [00:44:09] Speaker A: With the Amazons that are left, they come back together and they say, my daughters, you have failed us. You have forgotten your source of your power. Forgotten to trust the place in you. For these failures, you must do penance. One in which there is new honor, new responsibility. I shall send you to an island beneath which lies unspeakable evil. And that unspeakable evil is a box from the fourth world. [00:44:36] Speaker B: What? That's not what they say. [00:44:39] Speaker A: Oh, you're correct. That's not what they say. [00:44:42] Speaker B: They don't put that in the mean. We find that out. [00:44:48] Speaker A: No, no. Zack Snyder put that in the book. [00:44:51] Speaker B: Okay. In the movie. [00:44:53] Speaker A: Yeah, I hate him. [00:44:56] Speaker B: You hate him. But you watched the movie, dude. [00:44:59] Speaker A: I did watch it. [00:45:01] Speaker B: After you told everybody and myself, you told me and then you told the world you weren't going to watch it. And then what did you do? Literally the next day? [00:45:09] Speaker A: I did not say that I would not watch it. [00:45:13] Speaker B: Listener, please chime in and tell us what you heard. [00:45:18] Speaker A: Our single listener. The no prize will go to Dan because never did I say I would never watch it. [00:45:25] Speaker B: I do believe you said, I'm not going to. [00:45:30] Speaker A: Well, clearly you misunderstood me. I must have. [00:45:36] Speaker B: I am remiss then, sir. [00:45:38] Speaker A: However, we're right back here in Wonder Woman on page 22 for those of you following along. And they have to go guard this island. And so Poseidon is awesome. And just like parts the water so they can walk to this island. [00:45:54] Speaker B: He's like. [00:45:57] Speaker A: It'S cool. [00:45:58] Speaker B: It is pretty cool. [00:46:00] Speaker A: It's also the introduction of Paradise island becoming Themyscira. [00:46:06] Speaker B: Yes. [00:46:08] Speaker A: And so we get a new name for it. And apparently, if I'm reading these other articles correctly, Themyscira has a link to Amazonian lore whereas Paradise island was just a made up name for an island that Steve Trevor fell onto. Yes, but Paradise island was the name in the Wonder Woman 1970s television show with Linda Carter. So that was my exposure to Wonder Woman as a child, by the way. Same that and the Super Friends cartoons. Yes, and some Justice League issues. [00:46:41] Speaker B: True. [00:46:43] Speaker A: But yeah, I think too, if we're thinking back to when was the superpowers, was that right around this time War 85, the Jack Kirby inspired television show with Dark side, I'm thinking, so worth the horribly voiced Wonder Woman, where Darkseid kept trying to make Wonder Woman his bride. That was happening in those cartoons. And I think we were just thinking of things that would turn me off to not want to buy a Wonder Woman comic book. Like, there's something to turn me off from not wanting to buy a Wonder Woman comic book. [00:47:18] Speaker B: That would be it. [00:47:19] Speaker A: Yeah, it was it. Those storylines were just awful. Like, I watched all those cartoons where they introduced Firestorm and cyborg. That got me, as a kid looking to those other characters in the comics, right? That's probably what got me to pick up, like, a Teen Titans book, right? [00:47:35] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:47:36] Speaker A: But it did not get me excited about Wonder Woman. [00:47:40] Speaker B: It is interesting. I think, again, I bring it back to what is put into your hands at that age and what people believe will be what you should be reading sometimes is one thing, but also, too, there are those things that definitely do make those decisions for you. And if the cartoon did it because of whatever the storyline and you're cognizant of whatever that is and how sketch that is at that age, you're like, I'm not into it. That's not my thing. [00:48:19] Speaker A: Well, I mean, comic books were seventy five cents at the time. I got $2 a week doing chores at home, and until I started working summers for my dad, I wouldn't accumulate any sort of money and so limited funds. And I remember the first time I grabbed more than a Legion book. Was that a Barnes and nobles by the Safeway on the hill? The old Safeway before it moved. [00:48:46] Speaker B: Oh, yeah. [00:48:47] Speaker A: And I went in there and grabbed, I think it was a Barnes and nobles, but I went in there and I grabbed. So I'd been grabbing the Legion book. If you all want to know where we grew up, from the 711 on 152nd in Meridian. I would ride my bike there to get it sometimes. Sometimes my dad would take me there, I'd get it off the spinner rack. [00:49:07] Speaker B: And I was getting dangerous bike ride. When you think about it now, it's. [00:49:10] Speaker A: Horribly dangerous bike ride. [00:49:13] Speaker B: Why did our parents let us ride our bikes to that 711 to begin with? It was like Miles away, and you had to go on a highway to get there. [00:49:21] Speaker A: Pretty much, yeah. Well, there was less traffic back then, too, than there is now. But, yeah, I mean, I'd go to that spinner rack and I was reading the Tales of the Legion. So I started with Tales of the Legion, trying to remember the issue number. But I got the last 1234 books, so that would have been the 84 80. So I was eleven, 1011 years old. And then they started reprints. Right. So the Baxter series had started for both Titans and Legion. And I remember I got into a Barnes and noble once and picked up, like a later issue of reprints there of Titans and the three books I grabbed. So here's where the influences are. I grabbed an issue of Legion, of course, because I was buying that. Grabbed an issue of Tales of the new Teen Titans, and I grabbed an issue of the West Coast Avengers, having no idea of the greatness I was grabbing into that West Coast Avengers, like. [00:50:28] Speaker B: So much good stuff in that. [00:50:30] Speaker A: But you'll notice they were all team books. [00:50:32] Speaker B: Yeah, team books. [00:50:33] Speaker A: And I had no idea what was going on in the West Coast Avengers. I mean, no idea, but I read it and I was like, well, this is fascinating. I want to find out more about Hawkeye and Mockingbird and who is this wonder man guy? I didn't know any of that. And of course, Teen Titans I grabbed because of Cyborg, honestly. But then, you know, who's this Nightwing person? Oh, that's. And so, and Starfire and Wonder Girl and all that. And then, of course, grabbing the Legion books were team books, where I got a lot of different characters and you got introduced to different characters and spotlights. And here, too, I'm just not sure. I don't know. This might have hooked me as a kid, but it is a lot on one character. But I think the cool thing about Perez here at page 23 is that there's so much development here. I almost think if you read Issue one, you can totally get into the background of this character. And we're at page 23 of 35, I think, and we haven't seen anything close to a Wonder Woman show up. [00:51:41] Speaker B: No, you're just getting all of the backstory of the mythos of the Amazons and who they are, where they came from, all that stuff. And it's all build up. And I will say it again, it's good storytelling like that. It draws me in now, and I thoroughly enjoy that in any form of media. And that's why I like certain movies. And maybe I might be persuaded if the Snyder cut is good storytelling. [00:52:28] Speaker A: It's a story. It. [00:52:32] Speaker B: It's long story. [00:52:34] Speaker A: Well, I mean, let's get into Snyder cut and the Wonder Woman 84 movie toward the end. Let's wrap with that. But I do want to say I think almost the Wonder Woman 84 storyline and the original Wonder Woman. So both of the Patty. [00:52:52] Speaker B: Patty Jenkins movies. [00:52:53] Speaker A: Thank you. Yeah, both of the Patty Jenkins movies, really inspired by a lot of the Perez stuff. And she acknowledges that too. Right. The rebuilding of Themyscira here. The visuals of what Themyscira looks like. [00:53:11] Speaker B: On the. [00:53:13] Speaker A: Yeah. As there should be because it's George Perez. [00:53:16] Speaker B: Yeah. But, yeah, I definitely love these building panels. It's like boom, boom, boom. You get seven, eight panels of great building. One nice big panel at the bottom of this page of what everything looks like. [00:53:33] Speaker A: And the acknowledgment in a tiny panel in the corner that there's still danger below. [00:53:40] Speaker B: Danger below. And they're guarding it. [00:53:42] Speaker A: I like how they've gone some sort of Greek guard to Roman guard to garb. Right. In their uniforms, too. Over time. [00:53:50] Speaker B: Times have changed, man. [00:53:52] Speaker A: Yeah, times have changed. But it doesn't look like there's a big progression of time. So they talk about the burden that they have. And now we get to the next page and they note that outside, beyond the seas of the world of man changes. Great civilizations rise and fall. But the Amazons know nothing of this. They hear only the voice of the old gods grow more distant, as if Olympus itself were being swallowed in the clouds. And presumably this is the influence that Ares mentions. Right. The idea of the Ares would corrupt the hearts of men and become more powerful, that war and corruption and evil and patriarchy would become worshipped more than gods. They don't say the word patriarchy in the book. [00:54:40] Speaker B: No, but it's definitely noted as a reader. [00:54:46] Speaker A: And of course, no one has ever talked about patriarchy in comics until the comics gate. People woke up and talked about it in the 2010. I know what this book isn't all. [00:54:58] Speaker B: About that we didn't talk about it in. I mean, we're talking about a Perez book, but we did talk about it kind of in Perez. [00:55:07] Speaker A: Yeah, but hey, anyway, so we get 30th centennial, so that's 3000 years. Okay. And of the Amazons, the queen's requests. Mela Lip. Is it Lippy? Yeah, this is the Oracle. I'm just going to call her the Oracle so I don't mess up her name. And they mentioned signs point to anything. And basically she finds out. The Oracle discloses that Hippolyte was pregnant when she was murdered. And so she's been yearning for a child and she's commanded by the Oracle to go out based on what the gods have told her, to form a child out of clay. And as she forms that child out of Clay, she reaches her arms out to fair Artemis and to the midwives. And then that last soul that was on the first page that they mentioned that was waiting or the first page. But was that 6th page ish, way back to the beginning of the story, comes back and inhabits, is given by the midwives themselves from Demeter, Aphrodite, Athena, Artemis, Hestia, and Hermes. She's given life to the daughter and Clay and is named Diana. And now we're getting back into the Wonder Woman story here. So page 25 of a 35 page book. We finally get introduced to the person who would eventually become Wonder Woman. Spoilers. [00:56:47] Speaker B: What? Dan? [00:56:49] Speaker A: Well, and I don't feel bad about this because this is an origin story then, that has been told and retold many times. It was in the cartoons, in the, was in the Wonder Woman books, but now in the TV show. In the TV show. So we're commanded to have a contest, and Diana is forbidden from the contest by her mom. And actually, I think I skipped a page. So. No, yeah, I'm good. So she first is excelling. First. Diana is excelling in all these things. And then. Yeah, correct. The oracle comes back and they have to have a contest to send somebody out into the world. And Diana goes to her mom's like, I'm the most powerful one. I should be in the contest. Mom's like, I'm having none of that. I just got you. You're right here. You're staying on. Not. You're not going anywhere. I'm your mom. But, mom, why can't I do it? I'm your mom. I'm not going to let you do this. Is that about how that went down? [00:57:52] Speaker B: Pretty much, yeah. [00:57:54] Speaker A: And so pretty traditional storytelling. But then we have the contest. In several of the traditional stories, she wore a mask or something like that. But in this case, she just wears the Amazonian garb with the helmet, so her face is obscured. They run through the contest and clearly one Amazonian is outdoing all of the other ones. And of course, we find out on page 29 that that is indeed Diana. And she's given the golden bracelets. And of course the bracelets come back. I kind of shadowed over this, but the gods told them they had to wear the bracelets because of their bondage. Right. So that's where the tie to Marston comes into in the original idea of bondage. So we're keeping a lot of the original pieces there. And they wear the bracelets to remind them of what happened when they strayed from their mission. Right. That's what the gods commanded them to do. And so you've got a lot of reactions from Amazonians here. Great. Hera cannot be Diana. And now we get sort of the first look of Diana, too. She's looking ashamed, but she's also looking more like the right that you see as Wonder Woman, the way present. More adult looking. Right. She's ashamed, but she looks like an adult, if that makes sense. Yeah. And she starts to forbid this, and she's told by the Oracle, the princess won her place rightfully. You cannot fight the will of the gods. And so now it's time to test her. AnD I honestly thought this was a really cool scene. So we come in, and without hearing the word Steve Trevor. Right at all, because that gives us an opportunity to tell that story later or to tell a story about how we get the gun. And I love this type of storytelling because what we find out is, there's a gun there. [00:59:46] Speaker B: There's a gun. [00:59:47] Speaker A: They don't call it a gun. They call it a. What is it called? Great power. Of all Amazons have seen it. Only those before you still live. The flashing Thunder is a secret and terrible part of our past. So they allude to it being part of their past. Right. So clearly, they've acquired it somewhere. It killed somebody. And I like this, too, because Patty Jenkins, even though I wasn't a big fan of starting the first one in World War I, I probably thought it should have started in World War II. I love how she can pull straight from the source material here and tell the story of how the gun showed up the first time. [01:00:26] Speaker B: Yeah. [01:00:27] Speaker A: Because you can just take this single line and you can stay true to the comic book thread. And I, of course, didn't know that when I was watching the movie. So good on her for citing Perez, but also just using this piece. Right, right. And we've talked about that before, finding pieces or threads, even a single line here. Right. That you can use to build a whole story on. [01:00:49] Speaker B: Yeah. Sometimes it's amazing what can be pulled from something like this and build the rest of something else and still tie it all back together and stay true and. Yeah, it's a beautiful thing. [01:01:08] Speaker A: I really love this. And then I really love the next scene because she holds up her bracelets and just want to make sure. Yeah. Silver bracelets. So they did call them bracelets. And she tells Philippus she's ready. And Philippis fires the gun, and she blocks. And there goes my phone. And she blocks everything. [01:01:35] Speaker B: First is my cat. Then it's your phone. [01:01:37] Speaker A: Well, that's why we are professional podcasters, and we will not be editing any of that out. [01:01:43] Speaker B: It's a gift from us to you. [01:01:44] Speaker A: It's a gift from us to you. You got just enough green day to get us fined. So now we're here and she deflects all the bullets. I love this. I loved this as a kid when I watched Wonder Woman on TV as a child. [01:02:02] Speaker B: Yeah. [01:02:03] Speaker A: I loved when she would block bullets with. [01:02:05] Speaker B: So cool. [01:02:06] Speaker A: She just hold up the things. Yeah. And it just reminded me of that. And I just love George Perez for doing that for me. [01:02:17] Speaker B: Yeah. And the facial expressions that she has because she's testing her will and her strength and her ability to do this. And it's that shock and awe that, oh, my gosh, I'm doing this. I'm doing the thing. I can do this. And she's going through all those emotions in these four panels. And I love how it's a top and bottom of each panel. It's the gun firing, firing and firing, and then not firing. And just her expressions and her actions. It marries so nicely. [01:02:49] Speaker A: And it also expresses that underlying thread from Aries. Right. How these things are going on in the outside. Aries is continued to corrupt the outside world, and men have continued to create weapons of destruction where the Amazons have relied on their traditional strength, power, love, and then these other pieces. Right. Like one Amazon has the power to stop. There is only a need for one. I think that's so have this. So one civilization, they need one ambassador, basically, right, to go out. And of course, way later in the Wonder Woman mythos, she actually becomes the ambassador from Themyscira. Right? So not to spoil comic books that were written 15 years ago, but. [01:03:41] Speaker B: Sorry, people. [01:03:42] Speaker A: Yeah. But in this case, we're looking at a book that was written a lot. [01:03:47] Speaker B: Of years ago, many years ago. [01:03:50] Speaker A: So I don't want to say because it makes me feel old, but, yeah. So anyway, we get into this 30 something years ago, I think an important thread here, too. Mother hugs her and she said, this is no time for tales of horror. My daughter, you are alive. That's all that matters. But, Mother, I. Hush. Know that the gods are with you, as am now. And then the Oracle. Now is the plan of the goddess clear? Diana, you were born into the world to be the most honored among all Amazons. Henceforth, your warrior's garb shall proclaim your honor. Look now upon the standard for which we shall weave that garb. The standard of the warrior for whom you were named, who died nobly that the Amazon race might live, and we don't know who that is. Thus giving us another thread for a reboot, retroboot and storytelling down the road. [01:04:55] Speaker B: Yep. More story. [01:04:58] Speaker A: I really like that. And that's how you could have maybe a story of Hippolyta being the first queen or something like that, or being the original, and so maybe not even being the queen at all. Right, so now the Amazon's here, the queen, our champion's been chosen, and we get the amazing George Perez pose of super powerful ripped Wonder Woman ready to go out and take on the world. [01:05:25] Speaker B: Yep. [01:05:26] Speaker A: I don't think she's been named Wonder Woman yet either. She's been called the Champion, right? [01:05:29] Speaker B: Yeah. [01:05:32] Speaker A: And she looks to the heavens. And there we go. And that is the end of issue one. DC Comics is nice enough to give me a checklist of Wonder Woman appearances. Thank you so much. But we will be reading straight through. Straight through. And so we're going to be looking at Wonder Woman, Volume two. And it looks like it says the gods immortal storyline is issue one through seven, and the challenge of the gods is eight through 14. So we may just read through those first two story arcs, but we're definitely going to read through the first story arc. [01:06:08] Speaker B: I'm excited. [01:06:11] Speaker A: I am, too. I mean, this book is beautiful. And I'm like, how did I never get around to reading this again? [01:06:17] Speaker B: I think it's just like something turned you off from it when you were a kid, and even when you did pick up Wonder Woman stuff later, you never went back to it. And now we have an opportunity to do so. And with good reason. [01:06:36] Speaker A: Yeah, well, and I just kind of thinking, too, you're looking at just a very different kind of character than I would have read as a kid, right? [01:06:47] Speaker B: Oh, for sure. [01:06:50] Speaker A: And I think I wasn't into Greek and Roman gods. I wasn't really into the mythology, unless you're saying Ronald Reagan is myThos, which I certainly was into that. And so just kind of looking at this and, yeah, looking at what I was reading, it's just a very different piece here than I would have explored. And you as well, right? [01:07:15] Speaker B: Yeah, totally. I mean, at the time, I was reading, like, GI Joe books and Batman and Superman and stuff. Like, I mean, it was definitely just a different bag of books. [01:07:30] Speaker A: Yeah. And I think that accounts for too, I guess, too. And to think about the team books, I did grab several GI Joe books off the Spinner rack, too. So I do have, looking back, I have the Legion books, and I have several run of GI Joe books in the Serpentor era. [01:07:47] Speaker B: The Serpentor era. [01:07:50] Speaker A: And, yeah, I was grabbing those every week, too. So, yeah, just a different, but very different. Or not every week, but every month. So, yeah, I mean, those were the kind of things. Of course, GI Joe cartoon was a big thing. And syndication, especially, coming on every know so. And Wonder Woman, like I said, I was kind of turned off by the cartoon. And so much of our links to different media, too, were from those Saturday morning cartoons or from the cartoons in the afternoon. I mean, it's how I got into superheroes to begin with was the very cheesy super Friends cartoons. And I watched those over and over again. [01:08:33] Speaker B: Like you said, our social strata or what was pushed on us as kids versus what you have the ability to get your hands on now is totally different. So, I mean, now it's like, oh, hey, cool. Want to just jump on the DC app and read some books? Cool. It's right there. But back then, it was what's on the spinner rack? Or what am I watching on TV that I can go find this comic book of? [01:09:00] Speaker A: Well, and I think too, I mean, there's part of it too. I look at things you didn't necessarily know as a kid, but the characters were written so poorly, right, in those super friends stories. And I love going back and watching them. I loved the challenge of the super friends, right? I could watch those over and over again, but I loved those ones because, like, the ones that just focused on Wonder Woman, Aquaman, Superman, and Batman, since the characters weren't written very well, I loved it when they would introduce the other characters. Right? Who's this Flash guy? Who's this Green Lantern guy? Who is the Apache chief? Right. Like, who are the most racist superhero in all of cartoons, by the way? But who's the Apache chief? Right. Like, who's the samurai? Right. The Black Lightning or not Black Lightning. Sorry, they changed his name. Black Vulcan. Like, who are these folks? [01:09:53] Speaker B: Right? [01:09:53] Speaker A: And I wanted to know more about them because you didn't get snippets of it, but you were kind of overdone with the other characters. And so I think that's also what would lead me to grab a team book or something that wasn't just, like, one character. Like, you got so many different characters in one book where you'd learn about them. Whereas if you got a Wonder Woman book, presumably you got Wonder Woman. And I then wasn't mature enough at the time when this was put out, right. Because I definitely read Crisis long after it came out. Right? [01:10:22] Speaker B: Yeah. [01:10:22] Speaker A: I did not read Crisis when it was released off the newsstand. I didn't even know what was going on. I was a little bit behind on Legion books and then finally caught up. And it took me a couple of years to catch up because I bought my Legion books off the Spinner rack. And if you aren't aware, Legion was a year behind. So they were doing reprints because they had a direct to sale book and then they had the newsstand book, which was a year behind. They put out one year of news stories and then they were a year behind. So the goal was, well, if you can't go to a comics retailer, then you can just buy the book one year behind. Well, this is a total disaster from a marketing standpoint, but they did it with Legion and the Titans for several issues and Batman and the Outsiders as well. So you had this. And so I was a year behind. So I would see advertising in the books, but the Legion stories weren't, like, up to crisis, for example. [01:11:15] Speaker B: Right. [01:11:16] Speaker A: So when Crisis came out, by the time I got to the crisis crossover stories, they were actually a year behind. And one crazy thing too is Legion actually ran a issue, and I actually need to go get this in mint condition because I don't have it, I don't think. But they ran a reprint of Wildfire's origin instead of the crisis crossover story because they thought it would confuse everybody when they got to that issue in the run. [01:11:40] Speaker B: Oh, really? [01:11:41] Speaker A: So I really had no idea what was going on. So, like, Wonder Woman dying, all of that. I knew Supergirl died, but I read it a year post. So they kept the issue where Supergirl died in relation to the Legion, which is one of the saddest stories I've ever read. Because like, brainiac Five, looking back 1000 years in history at Supergirl dying and not being able to do anything about it. So I have that story, but then you're missing other stories. And that may have been the one they reprinted. I can't remember, but I know there was one issue in there where they just didn't cover it and so they skipped it. And so you really didn't know what's going on. So you see the ads, like the house ads in the book, but the house ads weren't matching up to reality, right. So I loved Legion. So I kept picking up these books, but I had no idea what was going on in the DC continuity. So if I'm picking up Tales of the Teen Titans or Tales of Legion of Superheroes, I had no idea. So that was a disservice too. So there's another reason. I may not even understood why there was a new Wonder Woman. Like, I might get House ad. Hey, here's Wonder Woman. And I'm like, okay, great, there's Wonder Woman. But I didn't have the storytelling to tell me why. Of her dying in crisis and the elimination of the Earth to Wonder Woman bringing all the universes together. [01:12:57] Speaker B: You're just like, I've already seen all this. I know. Wonder Woman. Why do I need more Wonder Woman? [01:13:09] Speaker A: Right? Like, what's the point? Okay, great. There's Wonder Woman standing on a hill. And when you're a kid and you're reading two books, right, or two or three books in this my case, I Think you're right. I think I was legion in GI Joe at that time. You're just not grabbing. And then occasionally. Right. Grab another Titans book or grab a couple of West coast adventures issues. Right? [01:13:31] Speaker B: Yeah. [01:13:32] Speaker A: But I didn't know what was going on at all. Yeah. So it's fun to read it now with the context and knowing what's happened and just, again, have read Crisis several times now, but just never gone back and picked up these books. [01:13:45] Speaker B: Yeah. Like you said, interesting to read things now knowing the context, or even be able to put things into a different context and understand things. I think when these books were coming out at the age that we were, I don't think we would have understood a whole lot of what was going on in them. They would have been. [01:14:07] Speaker A: Definitely would have. [01:14:09] Speaker B: It would have been interesting. You're a few years older, but I think I would have been like, why? What's going. I would have been a little lost in the sauce. [01:14:24] Speaker A: Well, I would have been turned off by the Pantheon if I would have brought one of those to church. I'm sure I would have been told it was of evil because there was more than one God. It's one of the reasons I never studied the Pantheon as a kid. It just wouldn't have been something that I would have picked up. And so there you go. And if I had, I probably would have loved it. I mean, I'm loving reading it now, and I will, too. I think, in the research approach, we were discussing that a little. I'm in my research for. I'm. I'll read a little bit each week, but I'm doing a research on George Perez, and I'm going to do research on the approach of the book, but I am intentionally staying out of Greek gods because I want to read this and learn like I was a little kid. Like, how well did George Perez introduce these concepts to me? And at least so far, it seems pretty straightforward. [01:15:26] Speaker B: That's a fair way to do it. It's a good way to get the idea, see if it transfers, translates across and if the ideas that he's putting onto these pages gets you interested enough to want to go find out more. And if it works, then now you are going to dig into those Greek gods, that mythology and find out more, or hopefully people will tell us more. [01:16:01] Speaker A: Absolutely. And I think we are going to get introduced to another Wonder Woman character that's well known in the next issue. So we're going to have another reboot of a character post crisis on Infinite Earths. [01:16:16] Speaker B: Super cool. [01:16:18] Speaker A: And we get a face off at 30,000ft and I see a helmet that says Trevor, no. So we're going to find out what's going on in issue two next time on Funny Book forensics. But for now, we have to stop because the dogs are home. And the Ann is home, I presume, because the dogs are home. [01:16:44] Speaker B: I'm not sure exactly what's going on or we're getting a delivery. [01:16:48] Speaker A: Well, the dogs have gone crazy, so this is a perfect end to funny book forensics. So I'm Dan. [01:16:54] Speaker B: I'm Greg. [01:16:55] Speaker A: And we're out of here. Until next time when we cover Wonder Woman, issue two. [01:17:01] Speaker B: Number two.