Funny Book Forensics 265 Whatever Happened to SP?

[00:00:08] Speaker A: Alrighty, Greg. So we are back with another episode of Funny Book Forensics, and we are on to issue six of exit stage Left, the Snagglepuss Chronicles. [00:00:17] Speaker B: Snagglepuss is literally exiting stage left. [00:00:22] Speaker A: Or just out of the building? [00:00:24] Speaker B: Out. Yeah, I mean, it is the last one, so he would be exiting, and I would assume because he's snagglepuss exiting. [00:00:31] Speaker A: Stage left, he doesn't seem real happy. [00:00:35] Speaker B: Not on the COVID No. I mean solemn. [00:00:40] Speaker A: Solemn. Yeah. I do like his scarf. [00:00:43] Speaker B: Yes. [00:00:44] Speaker A: I want that scarf. Actually. It's pretty cool. [00:00:50] Speaker B: I was looking at the wrong cover. I apologize. [00:00:54] Speaker A: Okay, well, yeah, that one. You were looking at the alt cover, which is also great. He is being about to be pulled stage left after he bows. I do think the front cover scarf is a little bit more epic, though. [00:01:09] Speaker B: It is. And actually, that rain drop effect and the way that it's kind of watercolor look, it's like an apparition feel. I don't know, it's almost got a ghostly feel to it. Just the way that the edges have that kind of weird whitening to it and everything. [00:01:34] Speaker A: It is really cool. [00:01:36] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:01:36] Speaker A: I assume this is all, like, Photoshop effects now, right? [00:01:40] Speaker B: Maybe. Or maybe not. I mean, I work with different artists that still do pen to paper, pencil to paper, stuff like that, and watercolor on their stuff, and they do a lot of, I would say, non digital technique. And then they might do some stuff in digital work, but you never know. I mean, only the artist knows. [00:02:07] Speaker A: I don't know. Yeah. I saw watercolor. I almost feel like Zipotone had shown up on that cover. Zipatone, which would be really old school, super cool. But, yeah, we're getting into it. And obviously, yeah, the other cover is beautiful. They're both beautiful. All the art is beautiful. [00:02:26] Speaker B: Yeah. Both mean applesauce. Applesauce. Applesauce and rose petals. I mean, applause, applause, applause. Yeah, because they're just so good. [00:02:40] Speaker A: Well, Greg, we're going to get into this. And how's your history? You ready for history to come back in these episodes? We've been two issues without much history. [00:02:49] Speaker B: Yeah, let's bring that history. [00:02:51] Speaker A: Well, we are at 1959, and we're at a Moscow trade fair. [00:02:57] Speaker B: Okay. [00:02:59] Speaker A: And we've got Nixon and Khrushchev walking. [00:03:04] Speaker B: Nixon impeach president. [00:03:10] Speaker A: Yeah. Have you heard of the kitchen debate? [00:03:12] Speaker B: No, I have not. What's the kitchen debate? [00:03:14] Speaker A: Oh, well, the kitchen debate was a debate between Khrushchev and Nixon, where they walked around a trade show in a kitchen and argued about whether or not. The Soviet Union was better than the. Well, I believe both sides think they won. We all won, though, because Nixon coming out of the Communist, out of McCarthyism. And Nixon was definitely a McCarthy supporter. Got to rebuild himself as a politician with the kitchen debate. And we all were winners because, of course, he lost to Kennedy, but he later became president. And that's how I say we're all winners because we got Richard Nixon as president. [00:04:10] Speaker B: Oh, we won. [00:04:13] Speaker A: Sure. Nixon was a great president. I mean, he took us off the gold standard, opened up trade with China. He was impeached. Maybe only once, though. Only once he continued Vietnam. And, of course, that whole opening up trade with China has had no impact historically on us at all. [00:04:38] Speaker B: No, not at all. You know who'd have been a better president? [00:04:48] Speaker A: I think Prez was trying to beat Nixon, but that was too far. In the future, my dog would have been a better president. She's definitely more. [00:04:58] Speaker B: True. True. [00:05:00] Speaker A: Wow. Anyway, yeah, the kitchen debates, if folks are at all interested, look it up. It was a fascinating time, especially a time for Vice President Richard Dixon to rebuild himself. Right. Because he needed new issues, because he couldn't strike out against the Communist insurgents in the. So, you know, what do you do? You go after the communists themselves. [00:05:21] Speaker B: Yeah, in other countries and setting up shadow governments in other places. If you can't get them in the big country of Russia, go get them in the smaller countries. [00:05:33] Speaker A: Yeah. Well, admittedly, all the presidents at those times. Well, I shouldn't say all, but, I mean, Kennedy, obviously, Bay of Pigs and small things and Johnson, that whole Vietnam thing worked out Real well. So anyway, well, we get back and we get some flashbacks. In every nation, people line up for American plays and movies. We got. The heart is a kennel of thieves in one theater. So clearly SP's work is lived on. If SP hasn't. And we know American jazz and rock. And, of course, this is Nixon making the argument. And Khrushchev says, well, your system is a sham that takes credit for the very things it tries to destroy. You worship the music of people who can't even drink for the same fountain as you. You celebrate the achievements of writers even as you blacklist them. Capitalism doesn't make you creative. It just makes you better at commodifying your victims. [00:06:34] Speaker B: Truth bomb. [00:06:38] Speaker A: And Nixon blows it off. Well, it's not like that, Nikki, really. You should come see our country for yourself. Meet some real Americans. And he accepts the invitation, and I love it. The next line. Make arrangements. And damn it, we better get one of those rotating chicken. [00:06:58] Speaker B: Know a side, like, okay. So they show this crazy the kitchen of the future. It wasn't until I'd say, like, the. Something like that. I think my dad saw the rotisserie chicken that you could like the chicken. [00:07:14] Speaker A: Rotisserie and forget it. [00:07:16] Speaker B: Well, the one that you. Yeah, maybe he bought it at the fair. [00:07:20] Speaker A: Ronco said it and forget it. Yeah. [00:07:22] Speaker B: He was so excited. We had that thing on our counter and used it five times, I think, and it was so hard to clean. I don't know, man. It was a great thing and also a terrible thing at the same time. I think people just wanted those chickens. [00:07:45] Speaker A: Well, little do you know, I bought one of them used. I'm smart and didn't buy one new, and I used it all the time. I would say I probably only use it a couple of times a year now, but I've used it to the point where the part of the bottom is broken, like, part of the plastic on the bottom, and the little tongs are bent a little bit. I've got to force them into that end piece where it spins around. Yeah. I actually love that thing. It makes really good food. [00:08:09] Speaker B: I think I would have liked it more if I wasn't working at the Fred Meyer Deli. Working and rotisserie, like, 20 chickens a day. [00:08:21] Speaker A: That's fair. [00:08:21] Speaker B: And then having to come home and cook the chicken from my parents and clean that damn thing. So, I mean, you take a kid and you give him the task of making the chicken at home when he's made 20 chickens already at work. It's not fun anymore. I don't know. My parents probably used it after I moved out of the house, but I remember five times we used it. [00:08:48] Speaker A: No, that's fair. I would continue to comment on this and how I never made it into the deli. And you did immediately at Fred Meyer. And by choice, mind you, I didn't want to work in the deli, but I did work in the deli one day. The Deli ladies had me run the front counter for them because they loved me, and they used to always give me extra when I would check out. When I was working at Fred Meyer. [00:09:13] Speaker B: The Deli ladies, that was, like, one of the nice parts of the job that I liked was the people. The people definitely keep you in a job sometimes. And not to digress too much from the comic, but I think anyone can agree it's always the people. It's definitely not the place sometimes, because. [00:09:31] Speaker A: No, that's for sure. [00:09:34] Speaker B: Both of us working in grocery for a majority of our high school and college years, we can attest it was tough. [00:09:44] Speaker A: It was fun times. But we do get another fun place. A nursing home. [00:09:50] Speaker B: Hey, those are always fun. [00:09:52] Speaker A: We've said this before, especially now. [00:09:56] Speaker B: No. [00:09:59] Speaker A: Quadruple masking. So we're in. And it looks like whoever that man was that's been talking to Snagglepuss has regressed a little bit. Snugglepuss, right. Walks in and he says, who are you? He's trying to open a piece of candy. He says, the playwright. Remember? Oh, Mr. Lion, you used to have a wife. What'd you do with her? We divorced five years ago. Great. And he says, send her my congratulations. And he says, I used to think a good woman would set my boy right. Which. Wow. Okay. [00:10:39] Speaker B: Yeah. That's a loaded statement. [00:10:46] Speaker A: Yeah. These lines, they're good, but sometimes they hit me unexpectedly, so we just pause there for a second. [00:10:59] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:11:06] Speaker A: It was interesting. A quick aside. It's just interesting. Like, hopes of the Biden administration. Right? I saw one was just to that line. Right? Like, can we finally have a ban on gay conversion therapy in the United States? [00:11:25] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:11:27] Speaker A: Please. [00:11:28] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:11:28] Speaker A: Because a good woman doesn't just make you ungay. [00:11:33] Speaker B: And you can't put somebody into a class or some sort of therapy to make them think different or feel different, because that does not work. [00:11:46] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:11:48] Speaker B: Making them believe that, like you just said, finding a good woman or a good man, it's not a thing. It doesn't. Doesn't do it. [00:12:02] Speaker A: Of course, it's interesting here we get a little bit of a turn in the character as he's is trying to remember his life. But it's my biggest regret. The loss of my son, getting him married in a respectable line of work. It all seems so important at the time. But what could be more important than a son? I wake up every morning, wonder if I ruined his life as badly as I ruined my own. And it's too late to do anything but admit the truth. I'm a fool. And both Snagglepuss and his dad regret what happened, and they move on. [00:12:47] Speaker B: It's a powerful page. [00:12:49] Speaker A: Then we get Snagglepuss walking. Well, last episode, we said we wondered if the falling action would be uplifting. [00:12:59] Speaker B: No, the falling action just keeps going underground. [00:13:07] Speaker A: Well, we get a page and we get credits. Mark Russell Ryder. Mike Vienne Penciler. Sean Parsons. Incorrect. Thank you all so much for the journey. And Ben Caldwell on all the covers. Been really great. All right, so we had Snagglepuss walking through New York. There got a big picture of some like it hot in the background. And he doesn't look too happy, Greg. [00:13:36] Speaker B: No, he does not. He is a different snaggle piss than what we started with. [00:13:43] Speaker A: He looks very frail. [00:13:45] Speaker B: Yeah. He's definitely not the man about town. He's more of the man around town. [00:13:56] Speaker A: Yeah. And even like. And the nails in his feet and everything. He was so well groomed and everything. It looks like he's still kind of trying, but. [00:14:09] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:14:12] Speaker A: He looks like a guy who lost everything. [00:14:15] Speaker B: Yeah. He's kind of downtrodden. [00:14:23] Speaker A: WelL, we get in, and there he is walking across a bunch of TVs there with Marilyn Monroe living her truth by marrying Arthur Miller and divorcing Joe DiMaggio. [00:14:42] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:14:44] Speaker A: And then we get those weird characters from issue one. [00:14:47] Speaker B: Issue one. [00:14:47] Speaker A: People coming back, and it was Alice and. What was the guy's name? [00:14:54] Speaker B: His name escapes me. But that's because they frightened me. [00:14:59] Speaker A: That's okay. Yeah, they do frighten me because they watched executions and stuff. [00:15:03] Speaker B: They were excited about it. [00:15:05] Speaker A: And. [00:15:08] Speaker B: They have their child with them. [00:15:11] Speaker A: Yeah. Who wants to get her picture taken with the Communist. And he, as politely as possible, excuses himself because he's supposed to meet with somebody else. [00:15:26] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:15:31] Speaker A: And back to Auggie Doggy. [00:15:34] Speaker B: Yeah. And he's looking pretty dapper. Nice looking suit. He's doing well for himself. [00:15:46] Speaker A: And his book. Selling a lot. [00:15:51] Speaker B: A lot. [00:15:52] Speaker A: And he says, I still can't believe they blacklisted you. I kept imagining they'd fail. Our country would come to its senses. I guess, like most writers, I was seduced by my need for a happy ending. And just as a side note, since we have Auggie Doggy one, the place I'm currently staying at. Not that everybody needs to know my business, but my house was flooded. It's being repaired. Super exciting staying in another place. And they have a dog named Augie. So his name is spelled O-G-G-I-E for some reason. Because I would always. If I was going to name my dog Augie, it would be Augie Doggy. [00:16:32] Speaker B: Yeah, that makes sense. [00:16:33] Speaker A: And Doggy Daddy, which. [00:16:37] Speaker B: I don't even. [00:16:38] Speaker A: Want to laugh about the context of the story. So we will go ahead and continue. [00:16:45] Speaker B: I'm sorry, but now I'm just. So many questions, but I don't need answers. [00:16:51] Speaker A: Well, those were the characters, right? Augie Doggy and Doggy Daddy. [00:16:54] Speaker B: Right. [00:16:55] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:17:03] Speaker B: Now I'm seeing a whole different scene in my head. [00:17:06] Speaker A: It is different now, isn't it? [00:17:07] Speaker B: It's so different. [00:17:09] Speaker A: Wow. [00:17:11] Speaker B: So anyway, different music in my head, too. [00:17:15] Speaker A: They're having a moment here talking about the universe and Huckleberry and notes that they'll face the truce together and they move on. So Augie says goodbye to SP, and then we keep going. It looks like that Lila gets remarried. Awesome. And he's opening his TV dinners because now he's given up all hope, just like his friend. [00:17:57] Speaker B: Do you think he saved all of Huckleberry Hound's TV dinners? [00:18:01] Speaker A: I don't know. It's really weird, though. He comes in with some really nice looking groceries and then makes a TV dinner. [00:18:07] Speaker B: You know, though, I will tell you, going through bouts of depression myself, and since we're open and honest on the podcast about things, I mean, mental health is an important thing. Depression is a thing that people deal with and work through. You can go shopping and buy the best food and be excited about taking it home and cooking it, but sometimes you just look at it and you're like, it's going to take too much time to press, to prep, to process, to cook, to do the dishes afterwards, and it starts spiraling you. And the only thing that makes sense is just heating up a TV dinner, frozen burrito or eating a bag of chips. And sometimes it's the dumb comfort of knowing that you don't have to deal with the rest of it. And I can empathize with SP at this point because he's going through so much other stuff. Regardless, if he had all those groceries and he could have made that meal, maybe that TV dinner was his moment of, like, effort. I'm going to eat this thing because it's easy and it's going to make me feel better right now. [00:19:28] Speaker A: Right, though it won't. And of course, we all know that. But that's the trap, right? [00:19:34] Speaker B: Yeah, that is the trap. Damn it. Are you telling me to get rid of the TV dinners I have? [00:19:40] Speaker A: Well, we're talking from a health standpoint. [00:19:43] Speaker B: Yes. Well, good thing I don't have any. [00:19:47] Speaker A: There you go. And get rid of those frozen lasagnas. [00:19:51] Speaker B: Well, I can't. I'm trying to. [00:19:54] Speaker A: Nobody will take them. [00:19:55] Speaker B: Nobody will take them. And I can't cook them for my coworkers at work because we don't go to the office anymore. [00:20:01] Speaker A: I know. [00:20:03] Speaker B: So sad. [00:20:05] Speaker A: Too many sp's at home and he gets a knock, knock, knock, knock wrap rap on the door. And it's an old draw McGraw shows up, not a character I thought we'd see. [00:20:27] Speaker B: Did not. I did not. Honestly, did not expect him. Not at all. [00:20:33] Speaker A: This was not an absolute surprise. [00:20:36] Speaker B: Yes. Also, why does Quick draw have fingers where his hoof should be. This has bothered me through the whole entire book, but I understand he hard. [00:20:46] Speaker A: To grab a beer. [00:20:47] Speaker B: It's hard to grab a beer. And he needs it for his quick draw. [00:20:51] Speaker A: He's cop. [00:20:53] Speaker B: Sorry. [00:20:55] Speaker A: So he tells his story. He was weak and then he betrayed the man he loved for nothing. He was busted. A couple of years later, he lost his badge. Anyway, now he's remorseful because it's hindsight. I was thinking when I read the exact same thing that Sp says in the story. I actually said that before I even read the bubble. So we're looking at it. But Quick draw had some ideas. He changed his life and he said, originally chose my fear over my love and it was the worst mistake of my life. But I'm working again. And he says, where no force would hire someone like something like that, with something like that on their record. And now he's working in cartoons. [00:21:48] Speaker B: That's a change. That's a big pivot. [00:21:51] Speaker A: Yeah. And of course, we know how SP views television. Yeah. [00:21:56] Speaker B: He does not hold it in high regards at all. [00:22:00] Speaker A: Cartoons seem even worse. He says, a rising tide lifts all boats, he says. And of course, quick draw says, all you need is a silly catchphrase like. [00:22:13] Speaker B: Exit stage left or heavens to Mercatroid. [00:22:18] Speaker A: And SP says, I'm a writer. I don't want to work on some stupid cartoon. He says, quick draw says, it's only stupid if that's what you make of it. Anyway, change your mind and give me a call. And we're getting really meta here, too, because not just the cartoons but the comic book medium and a lot. So we're getting a little meta going into the end of the story. And then Sp goes and picks up a letter to God or whomever. And it was the letter that Huckleberry wrote when he died. And he sits down to read it. [00:23:00] Speaker B: It is a deep letter. [00:23:03] Speaker A: I'm not going to read the whole letter to everybody. I'll just read a couple of passages. One line he says, I suppose if I could hope for a heaven, it would be a grand celestial waiting room, collecting the dead until the end of days. And he goes through leading this letter. And there's a lot of that beautiful prose throughout. And the art switches from scene to scene, kind of back and forth between the letter and then the people impacted by the letter, which of course, are quick draw on Sp. At the end he says, alas, that's all I have to say, that. And please look after Huck Jr. Life is hard as a fatherless pup. Exit stage left, using SP's own line and a writing to him. Huckleberry Hound. Man. [00:24:05] Speaker B: It got me again, dude. [00:24:07] Speaker A: Yeah, well, there's a reason I'm not reading the whole letter. [00:24:10] Speaker B: Because it would be. [00:24:11] Speaker A: I couldn't make it through the whole letter. [00:24:13] Speaker B: I couldn't either. I was going to offer to read some of it, but I know I couldn't do it. I couldn't do it. And that's good writing when you've got fictitious characters, prose, but it hits you so hard because it's real, right? [00:24:33] Speaker A: And then the next, the flip the page. And he gets a ring on the door and you get the line. You finally get the line. Oh, heavens to Murgatroyd. What now? And he finds out that his father passed last night, and we finally get the picture of his dad and his mom and him as a kid. And he tells the nurse his name was Scotty, Scotty Puss before it was Snaggle Puss. So he had a stage name. And then he finds Squiddly diddly back at the nursing home. [00:25:07] Speaker B: Back there playing at the nursing home again. [00:25:10] Speaker A: Yeah. And they try to talk for a minute. And that's one of the lighter lines of the last issue, is this old man comes up to him and says, I killed Squid during the Great War. You know. [00:25:29] Speaker B: It'S always interesting. You hear stuff. I mean, just knowing from being in nursing homes for different things throughout my life, you always hear things like that and you don't know how to take it. Sometimes, right? When people say things like that, do you laugh? Do you engage them? Do you want more of a story? Or do you just walk away? [00:25:59] Speaker A: So we go back to Stonewall in the next page, that's where Snugglepuss goes after retrieving the remains of his father, as he says. And we find the bartender now Sporting an eye patch from the raid. And I assume other raids that happened at Stonewall as well. We just saw one, but it was not the only one, I'm sure. [00:26:20] Speaker B: It continued. [00:26:21] Speaker A: And Snagglepost acknowledges he's so poor now he can't even afford to bury his father. He says, huckleberry is dead and it's all for nothing. But the bartender reminds him it wasn't for nothing. And he notes that in just the last few years, the checkerboard opened for business. So did the stink pit and eaves. The raid didn't scare people away from the Stonewall. It proved that such places were possible. You didn't fight the system to win, Sp. You fought to show it can be done. [00:26:57] Speaker B: Another powerful page. [00:27:00] Speaker A: They're going to keep staying powerful. I think so. Premier Khrushchev will become the first Soviet leader to visit the United States. We get that going on in the background. And then SP looks up after talking with the bartender, and he sees some Cuban revolutionaries. And there's Pablo sporting a very attractive beard. [00:27:22] Speaker B: Yeah. And stylish cap. [00:27:26] Speaker A: So now we see where Pablo ended up. And then we flip the page and we've got a bus of dignitaries in a freaking cornfield in Iowa. And there Nixon and Khrushchev are wandering around Iowa, and the farmer's quite pissed. [00:27:49] Speaker B: Off, what are you doing here? Why? [00:27:55] Speaker A: And he actually throws corn and hits. And Khrushchev asks if he should throw corn now, too. [00:28:05] Speaker B: It's an honest question. Maybe it's an American tradition. [00:28:09] Speaker A: Who knows? At this point? I do like the fact that Nixon and Khrushchev are playing background comedy for us, though. Yeah. [00:28:17] Speaker B: I mean, if you can't get your laughs one way, you got to get them somewhere. [00:28:25] Speaker A: So Snagglepuss needs some money, so he calls up quick draw and he says he'll come help with the cartoon. And they get in and they're going to call him Snaggle Tooth. Instead of Snaggle puss, they paint him orange. He looks thrilled. [00:28:49] Speaker B: He very thrilled. He looks so happy. [00:28:56] Speaker A: He says, if this works, you'll not only be quick draw says, if this works, you'll only be a star again, but the Hollywood Blackwoods will be dead. We do Have a deal. Yes. And so he has one condition. He's got to take after the pup. So he introduces Huck Jr. To quick draw. And quick draw's look on his face is not matching his words. Well, this is it, boys. This time next week, millions of Americans will be watching you on TV. If you want to come up with a stage name, now is the time. But his face looks petrified. Yeah, especially when Huck Jr. Says, huckleberry Hound is good enough for me. And then we flip the page and we get the final scene here. He says, thanks. I've never imagined starring in my own cartoon. He says, cartoon characters are not. We're still storytellers. Life may be too chaotic, and then it flips to the corn throwing scene and observed to expect happy endings. We get Pablo writing a letter to Snagglepuss, famous playwright, New York City. But as resilient people are determined to live, we can salvage what we can. And then they're looking at his dad's grave, and Huckleberry Hound's grave right next to each other. And he said, and that's the closest thing that's as close to a happy ending as I need. And in 1959, Snagglepost made his debut on the quick draw McGraw Cartoon Special. The show was a success, and Snagglepost began starring in his own cartoons in honor of his dead father, Huck Jr. Always performed under the name Huckleberry Hound. Both had long careers in cartoons, as did many of their friends. The end. [00:30:55] Speaker B: Such a good book series, right. [00:30:59] Speaker A: I mean, when you end with, it was so good. [00:31:03] Speaker B: I mean, it's, it's just that the, I mean, it's not. It does everything. It does everything. And I think that's what makes it so good. [00:31:20] Speaker A: Yeah. And I think you're talking, I don't even know what I'm saying. I think it's great storytelling and you get a clear story arc, and sometimes I miss that. Right. I was poking a little bit about at Scott Snyder a couple of episodes ago when I saw one of the ads. And it's not that I'm poking at Scott Snyder, but I like Scott Snyder. I like some of his writing. Some of it I don't care for. But sometimes I think he complicates things so much or he just leaves pieces of the story out in lieu of action that it's hard to follow the story. Right. And I know you were saying a couple of episodes ago that action writing is a little bit different than what we're reading now. Right. So they can really tell a story. [00:32:07] Speaker B: But if you're telling a story that has action and it needs a narrative for you to follow, then you need to provide that narrative. And if you don't do that, then you're leaving a giant chunk of stuff on the table for someone to have to create. And if you don't give them the tools to create it, then it falls flat. Right. So I think I can agree with you on that, that if you're reading something that doesn't feel like it's fully cooked in some places, and it's like when you got French toast, you got French toast, you cut that thing open and it's kind of eggy in the middle. [00:32:45] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:32:46] Speaker B: Nobody likes that. You got to put it back on the pan, heat up the pan again, cook it a little bit more. And if you have to do that yourself, if you go to a restaurant, you're expecting good cooked French toast. Right. Especially if you're paying for it. Right. If you get a book and the story isn't what you're expecting, because it's only a portion of it there, then it's going to be frustrating. I think this story gives you all that. It's fully cooked, it gives you a dessert, and even it ends with the chaser. [00:33:28] Speaker A: Yeah. I don't disagree with you at all. I think when you're looking at, you get the whole story. If I was mapping the story out, it'd be easy to map in a classical literature form. Right. I'd be able to tell you where everything ends and begins in the story and even the subplots. Right. And how they interact. And then the way he takes a topic. Right. And he weaves the characters into the. [00:33:55] Speaker B: Right. [00:33:56] Speaker A: If you would have told me, you would have pitched this to me, Greg, and said, hey, Dan, I've got this great idea. Hey, what, Greg? Oh, I'm going to write a McCarthy story with Snagglepuss. I would have thought you were insane. [00:34:11] Speaker B: Yeah. Because it just doesn't seem like it works. But this totally works. And it hits so many other notes and brings so much stuff to the forefront for people who might not even know all these other portions of history, and it brings all these other feels to the surface for people and lets you get wrapped up in it and lets you become emotionally invested and involved in the story that is going on with snagglepuss and Huckleberry Hound. [00:34:51] Speaker A: And even some more of the meta parts. Right. So in issue three, he notes Arthur Miller and the Crucible. [00:34:57] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:34:57] Speaker A: And specifically notes, hey, the Crucible is a story, and they have to write the Crucible because they can't write about. [00:35:05] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:35:06] Speaker A: So he writes the Crucible, and so you can't write about Trump. So you write a story during McCarthy that mimics what's going on. [00:35:20] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:35:21] Speaker A: And then you put that story out there, and then you see the parallels between what's going on now and people are reading history, which is amazing, but they're also reading now. And I think that makes some good storytelling, too, because it's super easy to see what's going on historically in these stories and what's going on now. [00:35:47] Speaker B: If you don't read history, you can't prepare for the future. And I joke with friends sometimes, like, oh, we're moving into the were like this. Back in the Roaring 20s, we had this, this and this, but then there was this, and then after that, there was this, and it could be pretty hairy and terrible. We don't want to go too far back. We don't want to repeat things. But that's why you look back so that you don't. And that's why you move forward and you bring things forward, ideas, and you move forward with things that are good and you prepare for those things and steal yourself against it. [00:36:36] Speaker A: Yeah. And I think, too, for me, reading history, the parts between the wars were always more interesting to me. And it's interesting because I may have to check my dates, but I feel like the entirety of the story. Um, yeah, the entirety of the story happens, basically. I guess it'd be the tail end of the Korean War, right? [00:37:11] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:37:12] Speaker A: And then between the Korean War and the Vietnam and Vietnam. And so times between wars and how we react in those times have always been more interesting to me than reading about the wars. [00:37:31] Speaker B: At, if you look at this as a history lesson and you see, based off of what you just said, one, as a nation, and two, as just people in general, in any historical moment when there's not something going on where you're fighting against someone else, you're fighting against yourself. And we can see, if anything, last year, not to get too much, but we could see that that was definitely a situation of that. Right, right. It's one of those things where we're in a very unique place to live through it and see it, but also to be able to look back and see what and how to not be it. [00:38:27] Speaker A: One. Even looking at. Looking back, too, when you have Eisenhower sitting back and sort of letting this happen. Right. And you have his vice president, Richard Nixon, actively involved, and then we switch. Right. And I think even parallel to now, I'm not saying I think Joe Biden will necessarily make these mistakes, but you had one leader who openly did some terrible. And then, you know, in the, like, you know, we end the Korean War, we come back home, we're doing some things, but then immediately Kennedy falls into some of the exact same traps. Right? The Bay of Pigs, early Vietnam, a lot of the subterfuge overseas. Right. Trying to control the Americas. Like, very similar policies thread through both, at least from an international perspective. Except it looked better when Kennedy did. [00:39:24] Speaker B: It because he was doing it for a better reason. [00:39:28] Speaker A: Well, and he wasn't Nixon. Right. [00:39:30] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:39:30] Speaker A: And so people loved Eisenhower. Hey, we didn't elect Nixon. We didn't elect the jerk, but we elected this. You know, it's interesting because, know, you can sort of be tricked into relaxing. Right. And letting up on the government. And I'm not saying everybody should go out and be an activist, but you have to be careful. Like, all the folks that were protesting things that Trump did and protesting the inherent discrimination in the administration and the inherent discrimination in the world and systemic racism and all of those things. Well, it's almost like there's been a sigh of relief. Like, our hero, our savior is here, but systemic racism still exists. [00:40:16] Speaker B: Yeah, it didn't go away on the 20th. You got to continue the work that you're doing. And if you don't, then what was all the work that you did for? So we as people need to continue putting our best foot forward and continue doing the work. [00:40:39] Speaker A: But at the same time, what the story tells us, right, when quick draw comes back in and when he meets with Auggie Doggy in the last know, telling us, well, but they're also because of the things he did. There was a light at the end of the tunnel, right. Because of the things snagglepuss did. It left a room for art to grow. It left a room for the cartoons to exist. It left room for writers to exist. Right. And of course, he goes back to the bar and we find out that, well, because people knew that you could be gay in public, then all of these bars sprung up. Right. I think you should have that relaxation a little bit right when the change happens. But also you have to push for, against the bad, but also celebrate the good. And I think that's a balance. There's a balance there somewhere. And I think the story does a really good job of presenting that balance. [00:41:35] Speaker B: Definitely acknowledging those spaces that are there and realizing that they're accessible. [00:41:46] Speaker A: So great story. And do you have anything here to finish up with on issue six? [00:41:53] Speaker B: No, but if you've been following along and you haven't been reading this and you're just following along because it's something fun to listen to and you're like, oh, hey, this is an interesting take on this book series, and maybe I'll pick it up. If you haven't picked it up by now, you need to go read this and check it out and check out some of the other stuff that the creative team that worked on this did. Because the writing, and we can attest the writing in other projects is also good. The artwork is amazing in this, and you'll see it shine in other projects as well. So go do that and then just read the history. I mean, go pick up, we've been telling you time and time again through each and every episode, if you don't know this, check it out. Go watch documentary, go pick up a book, go find that information. Do yourself the favor, do yourself the service and get educated because you need this information. This is good stuff. [00:43:02] Speaker A: Yeah, it's pretty outstanding. So pretty excited. Course, you know, we're not biased or anything, but we like it when Northwest authors get a try. So Mark Russell's also from the Northwest, so great to see him get a try out there and excited to read more. [00:43:21] Speaker B: Yeah, definitely. And if you happen to go to a comic convention in the future and you happen upon any of these team members, find them. And if you've read this, tell them you like it, if you liked it, or ask them questions. [00:43:40] Speaker A: Yeah. Greg, I feel like you're dying to go to a comic convention to talk to people again. [00:43:45] Speaker B: Oh, Dan, you don't even know. I looked at my day job PTO and I'm like, it's all stacked up for what? So, I mean, thankfully I have other things to take up that time, but it's definitely one of those things that it's like, I usually don't take vacations or other stuff because I'm always using that time for other work, comic book stuff and going to conventions and stuff. And it's just like, oh, okay. Well, I've been saving it for what, all year? [00:44:21] Speaker A: Yeah, well, the before times will come back someday, Greg. [00:44:25] Speaker B: Someday. I'm looking forward to the new slew of online events and activities that people have been putting together. So if you are amazing listeners, I say, listener, if you're checking those things out as well, please drop us a line, tell us which ones you're checking out. That way we can check them out ourselves and maybe go and see what all the hubbub is about. Because Dan and I, we frequented many shows together here in the Northwest, and we probably have a little itch for an online show. I'm speaking for both of us, Dan, but I know that I would imagine that some of these things, as they start to roll out for this new season, are probably out there. So if you're listening and you know of one, the great thing is that because we're all in our homes and online right now, we can sample things from all over the country, all over the world. So it'd be cool to see creators in other places that we might not get to physically in the normal times, but right now we can check them out online. [00:45:42] Speaker A: Yep. [00:45:43] Speaker B: So let us. [00:45:44] Speaker A: Yep. Not that we're starved to be around people, but we kind of are know, like all of you. Yep. Especially, I know, Greg, you're not a complete extrovert, but I know you miss talking to the fans about your books and everything, and I am definitely not an extrovert. But I miss talking to creators and digging through all the stacks of comics. So, yeah, the before times will come back someday. But for now, everybody be safe. And thank you for listening to another episode of Funny Book Forensics.